Where Are The Chinese Fighters? – Why MMA Has Not Flourished In Chinese Society (In-Depth Analysis with Videos)

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    In a Chinese New Year special, DynastyClothingStore.com dives into the seldom-spoken topic of Chinese fighters in MMA. Brace yourselves… this is the longest blog entry we’ve ever done. It is not for the casual reader. If you call yourself an MMA fan though, we know you’ve been dying to ask these questions. We’ve got the answers, and the videos.

But if you’re too lazy, scroll down all the way to the bottom for the “Too Long, Didn’t Read” version, where we sum up this near 7,000 word article in one short paragraph.

Strapped in tight? Here we go.

Strapped in tight? Here we go.

The birthplace of martial arts (“all martial arts come from Shaolin”), China (a.k.a. The Middle Kingdom) possesses over five thousand years of history, and is the central origin of all Asian people and culture that can be traced back to the ancient times. While they won’t openly admit it, neighbouring nations such as Japan, Korea, and all of South East Asia owe their historical and cultural roots to China, in one way or another.

Why is it then, in a society of more than 2 billion ethnic Chinese people scattered across the globe combined, we have not had any successful Chinese fighters (so far)? Why is it that Japan, a tiny island comprised of only about 125 million people, has produced some of the sport’s most legendary MMA fighters, and Korea is taking the lead in pushing the next wave of successful Asian fighters, while China (and its neighbouring Chinese populations in and of Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Macau) is still the odd country out of the party? Why have Chinese fighters failed to find success at prize fighting and what is it that makes Chinese people “different” than other Asian fighters?

We’re going to look at the legitimate factors that have contributed to the slow acceptance of MMA in Chinese society, as well as dissecting the potential bullshit “reasons not to train MMA” agenda that Chinese martial arts masters preach. We’re about to see how much of it is with good reason, and how much of it is just Chinese people making up excuses and not being good at fighting MMA.

China Top Team

China Top Team

Factor #1:
Historical & Political Situation Stopped Growth & Development of Martial Arts in modern China

What Happened in China:
Without opening a gigantic textbook on the history of modern China, we’ll be as brief as we can. Right after the communist party (Mainland China) drove out the nationalists (Taiwanese) in 1949 to Taiwan after World War II, they banned the right to train martial arts in China for fear of people overthrowing the government, and burned down the Shaolin temples.

What?

That’s right. Martial arts, having originated in China, were banned from being practiced for the next thirty (30) years (until 1989 when the government decided to rebuild the Shaolin temple and “lift the ban on martial arts”) in the mainland.

What Happened Around The World:
Exact facts and dates aside, we know that this is the same era and time when the Japanese embraced western catch wrestling / professional wrestling in the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s, and added it to their existing Judo and Japanese Jiu Jitsu. Karate flourished and offshoot hard styles emerged such as Kyokushin Karate, challenging western kickboxing styles. Soon, kickboxing and grappling were combined as “Shooto”, derived from “shoot fighting” as pro wrestlers called it (a more realistic version of pro wrestling techniques), and we all knew that turned into MMA in Japan.

Japanese MMA legend Kazushi Sakuraba

Japanese MMA legend Kazushi Sakuraba

Koreans have adapted Taekwondo mainly from Karate during their time from being occupied by the Japanese, as well as Judo, and have become very strong in these martial arts during this time as well. Interestingly, the founder of Kyokushin Karate, Mas Oyama, was ethnic Korean (a.k.a. Choi Young-Eui / Choi Baedal), who went around all of Japan beating every Karate master there was to form what he called “The Ultimate Truth” (Kyokushin), the first and foremost style of full contact karate.

Mas Oyama fought bulls and invented the 100-Man Kumite.

Mas Oyama fought bulls and invented the 100-Man Kumite.

Mitsuyo Maeda of course brought Judo newaza (ground fighting) to Gastao Gracie, Carlos Gracie, and Helio Gracie in 1914, and the Gracies and other Brazilian families have been developing their Brazilian Jiu Jitsu undisturbed for the better part of a century.

Founder of Gracie Jiu Jitsu

Founder of Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Helio Gracie

Somewhere in Russia, two dudes (Viktor Spiridonov and Vasili Oshchepkov) who trained Judo in Japan came back home and combined it with wrestling to make Sambo, a hybrid martial art and combat sport defined by its intention to be “a merger of the most effective techniques of other martial arts”, and someone named Fedor Emelianenko was born.

An exception to the rule...

An exception to the rule…

Struggle For Stability & Modernity:
Having been ripped apart, raped, and pillaged by foreign powers during WW1 and WW2 (pretty much every nation you could think of who wanted a piece of China, including but not limited to: Japan, Germany, Italy, Austria-Hungary, United Kingdom, United States, France, Russia, the Dutch, Portugal, etc.), losing Hong Kong to the British, Macau to the Portuguese, and a good chunk of Chinese leaving for Taiwan (Formosa), the Chinese people as a whole were a social and economical mess.

Propaganda was running wild.

Propaganda was running wild.

Under the great leadership of the communist party (note: sarcasm), China underwent horrible famines and failed their attempts at modernization without commercialism / capitalism, and basically shut themselves out of any cultural trade or development for half a century. Japan on the other hand was embracing change, western technology and teachings, rebuilding after the war, and enjoyed massive growth and development. Chinese people during this time were struggling to pick themselves back up, and simply were not training any martial arts or developing their game because they weren’t allowed, or even socially or economically stable to do so.

Turning Martial Arts Into A Performance Art:
Kung Fu practitioners during this time (1949 and onwards) could only mildly train forms to hide their techniques, similar to how Brazilians trained Capoeira as a dance to hide their deadly attacks during times of slavery. This was largely compressed together as “Wushu”, an umbrella term / sport combining all Chinese martial arts techniques. Wushu then went on to become more of a performance art / sport, emphasizing forms and athleticism as a showcase of Chinese martial arts rather than competitive sport fighting.

Chinese Wushu

The Need For a Real Combat Sport:
Somewhere along the way in the 1970’s, some guy in the Chinese military decided to call bullshit on all this fancy stuff, and combined traditional kung fu fighting styles (Chinese martial arts were categorized into four families: Ti (To Kick), Da (To Hit), Shuai (To Wrestle), Na (To Grapple or Submit), basically Chinese “mixed martial arts”) to form a hybrid Chinese art known as Sanshou (Sanda), which means “free fighting”. It was a Chinese style of kickboxing combined with wrestling take downs and Judo throws. It’s distinction that made it “Chinese” was it’s leg catching techniques. A Sanshou fighter has great awareness of kicks and can catch any incoming kick and trip / take down / dump their opponent. It is now largely known to the world today through UFC fighter Cung Le who uses this Sanshou style as his main style of attack.

UFC Fighter and Sanshou world champion Cung Le

UFC Fighter and Sanshou world champion Cung Le. Cung Le is Vietnamese, but that fact aside, he’s been the only successful fighter so far to make use of a Chinese style in MMA.

The “Westernized” Colonies:
Hong Kong (The Pearl of the Orient) and Macau (The Las Vegas of Asia) flourished under British and Portuguese rule, respectively. Many Kung Fu masters including Ip Man (Bruce Lee’s teacher) had fled to the shores of Hong Kong to escape the war and Japanese occupation. Yet they were only just cities, not large enough to influence new Chinese martial arts styles to emerge (there is of course Bruce Lee, more on him in a bit) but did refine their existing styles of Wing Chun and Hung Gar through many infamous “rooftop challenge matches” between Kung Fu masters. We don’t know what was going on with Taiwan at this time. Having been under Japanese occupation, one would think they’ve done something with their martial arts in a free market economy, but sadly all they’ve managed to do was produce the William Hung of MMA, Andy Wang.

One Anomaly:
There is, of course, the man the myth the legend Bruce Lee. He was the first to get a taste of America, said “fuck this shit” and started doing his thing at this time period. Traveling to the States because of his street fighting behaviour and getting into trouble with the local Triads and police in Hong Kong, he was planting the seeds to his philosophy that “there is no best style”, and propagating the first psychological motions of mixed martial arts fighting.

Bruce Lee just plain didn't give a fuck about what the old masters had to say.

Bruce Lee just plain didn’t give a fuck about what the old masters had to say.

But by the time he returned to Hong Kong, became an overnight superstar and subsequent death, Chinese society had already lagged behind about 20-30 years in their development of modern martial arts. While Bruce Lee’s teachings should have caught on with the Chinese people, it somehow didn’t… at least, not in the fashion that we as MMA fans would have hoped for. Tradition still held on tight to many of our martial arts disciplines, and no one came close to pushing the boundaries as much as Bruce Lee did ever since.

Factor #2:
Traditional Martial Arts Thinking, Romanticism, & Believing Into Our Own Bullshit

You see, Chinese people were (and still are) too attached to traditional thinking and culture, especially when it came to traditional Chinese Kung Fu (more on the cultural and economics aspects later). Bruce Lee himself was attacked by Chinese Kung Fu masters in the States for teaching westerners his Kung Fu / Wing Chun (which ironically, sparked Bruce to abandon Kung Fu and start cross training in Fencing, Boxing, and Judo). This example alone, demonstrates the stubborn mentality the Chinese people had at the time, unlike the Japanese and other western fighters, who were traveling the world and cross training in different styles to become better martial artists.

The Chinese version of The Holocaust, The Rape of Nanking, were still fresh in Chinese peoples' minds at the hands of the Japanese

The Chinese version of The Holocaust, The Rape of Nanking, was still fresh in Chinese peoples’ minds at the hands of the Japanese.

However, it is fair to note that after the Chinese suffered at the hands of foreign oppression for the better part of a century, this “not sharing with foreigners” mentality is understandably deserved. Since Chinese Kung Fu masters hung onto their beloved Chinese techniques and traditional thinking, a number of negative consequences happened as a result.

1. Kung Fu Was A Secret… That Nobody Knew
Chinese Kung Fu was too secretly guarded and rarely taught or passed down to anyone, especially not to foreigners. This led to many old masters with esoteric styles not having many students, and the failure of passing on techniques means the death of their style and knowledge, eliminating any hopes of growth and development. There used to be hundreds of styles of Kung Fu ranging from all four categories of styles as mentioned before (directly influencing the likes of Karate, Jiu Jitsu, Judo, and now Brazilian Jiu Jitsu), but now only a select number remain known and practiced. The notable ones that remain today are Wushu, Wing Chun, Choy Li Fut, Tai Chi, Hung Gar, Ba Gua Quan, Xing Yi, various internal styles, and to a much lesser extent, Shuai Jiao (traditional Chinese wrestling, similar to Mongolian wrestling / Judo), and of course Shaolin Kung Fu (a plethora of animal styles such as Crane Fist [Karate], Praying Mantis and more).


Great demonstration… now can you do that in a live fight?

2. Self Defense, Not A Sport
Because Chinese martial arts systems are mainly based on self defense and contains no sport fighting elements (as opposed to Karate, Taekwondo, and Judo that have adopted sport / point fighting elements), you are never really able to use it or practice it in a live combat environment, contributing to the lack of development, modernization, and refinement of their style of Kung Fu, causing students and masters to continue to (falsely) believe that their style works (even when others have already evolved beyond most of their styles through decades of trial and error, sparring, and refinement).


Lightning fast… but can it do damage?

Out of all the Chinese martial arts, Wing Chun has been the only prominent art that has held its own in practicality and effectiveness against other styles throughout the years. Of course, we know the MMA gloves destroy any hope of any Chinese fighter using Wing Chun as a style, although UFC commentator Joe Rogan has commented that he would like to see a fighter use Wing Chun’s chain punches from the mount.


Why yes, it can! A real Wing Chun practitioner destroys a Kyokushin Karate guy… but they end up fighting on the ground anyway.

3. False Romanticism
Because Chinese martial arts were losing popularity (due to reason #1), took too long to learn and were too difficult to implement because of the lack of any live sporting element (reason #2), Chinese Kung Fu was regulated to being only a traditional martial art that believed in it’s own bullshit, even when it started to get picked apart by other styles in fight competitions.


Kyokushin Karate vs. “Drunken Boxing”. Please, stop embarrassing yourselves.

Chinese Kung Fu and martial arts myth and lore were so vast and rich, that many people (all across the globe) loved Kung Fu / Wuxia films, and still do. You can just ask hip-hop super group the Wu-Tang Clan. Front man RZA, engineered the group’s sound and persona off of classic Shaw Brothers Kung Fu films that he saw as a kid in the States. RZA now trains under former Shaolin Monk Shifu Shi Yan Ming, who opened up the USA Shaolin Temple in New York.

This clever guy had "The American Dream" and escaped from his touring Monk mates to spread Chinese Shaolin Kung Fu, his way.

This clever guy had “The American Dream” and escaped from his touring Monk mates to spread Chinese Shaolin Kung Fu.

Bruce Lee, back in the day, was already implementing the earliest of MMA techniques in his movies… and nobody noticed it because they were always in love with Bruce’s “Kung Fu”.

Whoa what the fuck? That's a grappling headlock from Judo side control!

Whoa what the fuck? That’s a grappling headlock from Judo side control!

Bruce actually applies a sloppy, early modified armbar on poor Sammo Hung! With the first set of MMA gloves ever made we might add. Holy shit!

Bruce actually applies a sloppy, early modified armbar on poor Sammo Hung! With the first set of MMA gloves ever made we might add. Holy shit!

International superstars who followed the footsteps of Bruce Lee such as Jackie Chan, Jet Li, and Donnie Yen, enjoyed many years of success as martial arts film action stars. Yet ultimately, they are just film actors. While Jackie Chan was schooled in the Beijing Opera martial arts, his moves are a combination of real Chinese Kung Fu, theatrical stunt work, and clever choreography.

Jet Li was a 5-time national Wushu champion and has legit martial arts skills spanning many different Chinese styles such as Shaolin Kung Fu, Long Fist, Taichi Quan, and others. But he was no prize fighter.

Donnie Yen, perhaps the most “modern” out of all his peers, has many years of legit Chinese martial arts training and cross training in newer styles such as Taekwondo and Boxing, but even he never stepped foot in a ring.

Chinese people seemed to have become attached to their idols and heroes in the entertainment world and embraced this type of romanticism of their martial arts, and forgot that the world outside Chinese martial arts was changing rapidly and leaving them behind.

4. Disbelief, Denial and Excuses
As far as we know, when the foreign fighters challenged real life folk hero Huo Yuan Jia in 1910 (played by Jet Li in “Fearless”), he smoked them all by historical accounts.

But… that was when nobody knew MMA.

When Chinese fighters started losing these sport competitions and challenge matches decades later (aside from Sanshou fights which Chinese fighters still rule with an iron fist over even Muay Thai fighters), because of their stubbornness to embrace change and growth, they started living in denial, and made up excuses for their failures. They shunned the training of other martial arts (mainly the grappling / ground game), called them “gay” or “nonsense”, and claimed Boxing and Muay Thai used “gloves” that took away the strengths and usefulness of Chinese Kung Fu.


Japanese “Kiai Master” scam artist gets his ass kicked by an MMA fighter.


American version. The Human Stun Gun gets debunked by MMA.


Trolling or not trolling, still funny, and still sad.

5. The Martial Arts “Avoiding Conflict” Paradox
Martial arts, when written in Chinese, “Wushu”, can literally be separated and interpreted as “the art of avoiding conflict”. Jet Li talked about this in his most important film “Fearless” a.k.a. “Huo Yuan Jia”.

Now we could all just go home at this point, because Jet Li is absolutely right about averting conflict, and even he himself admitted in a behind the scenes interview in “Cradle 2 The Grave” that he was no UFC fighter. But what about some of the other stuff these Chinese masters are saying? They say “MMA is trash”, the grappling is “gay”, are for thugs, goons, and gangsters who just want to fight, and isn’t a martial art. They claim that people who do MMA aren’t martial artists and don’t understand what is respect, honour, etc.

Let’s put our conspiracy hats on for a moment.

These masters could very well be using these claims to make excuses for the fact that they weren’t cross training or were too afraid to adapt themselves, fearing they’d fail to do so (trying to save “face” and reputation as a Kung Fu school). One of the most common “reasons” Chinese martial arts practitioners come up with to defend their style is that Chinese martial arts and people don’t train Kung Fu to fight others. They say they train it for health, for self defense, and to kill when attacked, not to bully others and compete in a sport that’s only a “game”.


Ip Chun explains Martial Arts is for self defense, health, and not for fighting.

There is of course truth to this statement… that is until I saw this:


Oh dear god. I trained my entire life in Chinese Kung Fu only to fight like this?

Self defense is great. Training for the health benefits are great. Having to never use your martial arts because you’ve reached martial arts mastery in the mind and body is also great. That is what martial arts is about. We understand that and we don’t have a problem with that at all.

But here lies the paradox:
If I train in something that I’m not allowed to use, or will never get to use, is there even a point?

Now what if I get provoked and had to use it in a fight? Sure, I could beat up some other Karate or Taekwondo guys with my Wing Chun Kung Fu… but what about MMA?


Wing Chun vs Boxing… someone gets knocked the fuck out.


…ends with a snap.

If what these masters are saying is true; I cannot train MMA and still be a noble martial artist who avoids conflict!?

That sounds like classic, grade A, Chinese KONY 2012 kool-aid bullshit to me.

kony2012
…and I still haven’t watched this video, LOL!

Martial arts is about the practitioner, and what he/she does with it, not the martial arts style itself. Just because MMA attracts the douchebag crowd to learn it and fight others… does not mean douchebags weren’t training Chinese Kung Fu decades ago for the same intentions, when it too, was the “cool” thing to do on the block.


This is touching. Ip Chun really is a bad ass martial arts master. He even talks about the evolution of his style of Wing Chun to become a more complete martial art. I have no doubt about this man’s knowledge and have all the respect in the world for him. But let’s be honest with ourselves. This is a movie. You can see the stunt double acting as Ip Chun when it’s not a close up shot. Any Wing Chun fighter who tries to only use Wing Chun would get crushed in MMA.

To be fair, we aren’t bashing Chinese martial arts. We aren’t even bashing traditional martial arts. They are the father of all Asian martial arts and should be respected. If you learn something useful, are able to defend yourself, and aren’t looking to fight or compete, then all the power to you.


Kung Fu, especially Wing Chun, is pretty awesome when done right. MMA is just a sport with rules anyway, not allowing eye gouging and groin strikes, right?

But that’s not what this is about.

We know traditional martial arts are powerful, and we understand MMA is just a sport with rules.

Hell, just look at Lyoto Machida who successfully used Karate in MMA, which was thought to not work before he became a champion. Anthony Pettis, Benson Henderson, and Anderson Silva are all Taekwondo black belts, all successful in MMA.

What we’re trying to find out is why Chinese people have sucked at MMA, and failed to adapt their techniques for MMA (Sanshou being the only exception). It has come to our attention that their stubbornness to adapt has been one of the key contributing factors to the lack of success of Chinese fighters.


Bryan To, a Hong Kong kickboxing champion, makes his MMA debut. For the love of Buddha, please learn the ground game first before you step into an MMA fight, you’re embarrassing yourself and your entire country.

Okay, so martial arts were banned in China for three decades and their country was in turmoil for basically a whole century. Yet you’re not fully convinced. Neither are we. If Chinese fighters are so successful in the Sanshou arena, they should have the same drive to learn the ground game and kick ass in MMA, right?

Well it turns out it isn’t as simple as that. Let’s dive deeper into Chinese society and psychology and see what pushes these Chinese youth away from pursuing combat sports in the first place…

Factor #3:
Traditional Chinese Culture, Society, and Teachings Kill The Pursuit of Sports & Fighting

As if the aforementioned five reasons of Chinese martial arts culture weren’t enough to slow, if not stop, Chinese youth from cross training and becoming great fighters, there’s a whole boatload of cultural factors as well. Where do we even start? Let’s categorize it like this: Money, Sports, Family, Society, and Psychology.

Courtesy of DynastyClothingStore.com

Courtesy of DynastyClothingStore.com

6. Chinese Culture Is All About Money
You should be well aware of this stereotype by now. The overprotective, strict, control freak Asian parents. The “Tiger Mom”s. The smart Asian kid who gets perfect grades. “Too Asian”, too many Asians taking over universities all across north America. The yellow peril who came to America to steal all our jobs.

I'm Rich Biatch!!!

I’m Rich Biatch!!!

When they say “Asian”, what they really mean is “Chinese”. This is not a jab at Koreans or Japanese. All Asian parents are equally strict, but there are slight differences. As far as I know, Chinese culture is the only one that literally revolves around money. Who else gives out lucky red pocket (lai see / hong bao) money every Chinese New Years? There’s Christmas and the exchange of gifts… but that’s not the same thing as giving away straight cash… and what makes money again?

Sure as hell not fighting.

Ask any Asian. Which subject / occupation did their parents want them to study, and who are they now? They are probably involved in one of the following fields:

1. Doctor / Dentist / Health / Medicine
2. Scientist / Engineer
3. Law
4. Business / Entrepreneur / Real Estate / Finance / Accounting
5. IT / Computers

If you tried to study anything else… you were a loser. Abandoned. Kicked out. Neglected, unloved child. Disowned. Or maybe you were semi-supported, but were still forced to go to university, even though that you knew you would benefit much more from a hands-on college program. Many Asian kids are forced to study what their parents told them to study, but end up doing what they want to do anyways, often (again) a few years behind their peers who started before them. If you failed at it, you’d be constantly teased by your parents, comparing you to other Chinese parents and how successful “their” kids were.

This is a very Chinese problem that is unique to Chinese people and culture. Choosing to become a fighter? Damn near unfathomable.

Takanori Gomi

Slightly Off-Topic: Similarly in Japanese culture, if you did something shameful or brought shame to the family, you would never be forgiven. This is why there is such a high suicide rate in Japan because they have trouble dealing with forgiveness and redemption. Takanori Gomi himself was disowned by his father when he told him he wanted to pursue fighting. His last name Gomi means “trash”, and wasn’t even his real last name.

7. Sports Were Never A Priority

Sports and athletics? Now that’s completely out of the question. Asians don’t support their kids in athletic programs. With the exception of the Chinese government hand picking babies to train for gold medals in the Olympics, they just don’t have competent sports programs. Developing children to fight MMA? They don’t give a shit about that. Parents make their kids take piano and violin lessons.

We need Yellow Pride, holmes.

We need Yellow Pride, holmes.

In contrast, American schools and colleges have all the amateur wrestling programs in place. American families encourage their kids to wrestle in elementary school, high school, and college, and to take part in extra curricular activities all the time, producing many more high level athletes and mixed martial arts fighters (wrestling is arguably the most important base martial art to have for MMA as more than half of UFC’s champions all know and use wrestling).

8. Family Values
Chinese people are taught to work together and value your family. You listen to your family. You don’t go out and reach out to achieve your own destiny. You usually took up the family business or listened to your parents by working an occupation of their choice, not yours.

I just made 200k this year. Fighting? I think I'll take a vacation instead.

I just made 200k this year. Fighting? I think I’ll take a vacation instead.

Whereas white folks kick their kids out after high school and force them to move out and create their own lives, Chinese families all live together, sometimes packed with up to three generations’ (grandfather / grandmother, father / mother, sons / daughters) worth of family members under one roof.

Chinese kids are taught to be filial. If you cared about your family and listened to them, you sure as hell wouldn’t defy them to become a mixed martial arts fighter.

9. Asian Society Doesn’t Understand Fighting, Thinks It’s Only For Gangsters and Thugs

Traditional Asian / Chinese thinking praises martial arts and Kung Fu… but competing in a combat sport like kickboxing or Muay Thai?

That is barbaric!

That is barbaric!

No way.

In Chinese society, they think that only thugs and Triad gangsters train and fight kickboxing. Fighting is seen as something “ugly”, or something only kids who are failures / dropped out of school / gangsters would do. “Good kids” practice Wing Chun… or Tai Chi. Or play the piano and violin…

Chinese parents are too protective of their kids to allow them to ever compete professionally, and in the rare occasions that they do let them, more often than not they’re westernized, don’t support their kid’s decision, or under the government’s pressure to send them off to an Olympic training facility for the rest of that poor kid’s life.

Gloves Come Off

Most recently this type of thinking has started to change, due to… you guessed it, Chinese people making movies about kickboxing! Now parents are more understanding of combat sports and how they build friendships and skills. But we still have a long way to go.

10. History Proves Chinese Used Their Brains To Fight, Not Their Fists
The Chinese invented at least 7 revolutionary things including paper, printing, gun powder / bombs, early irrigation techniques, compass, the repeating crossbow (the sub machine gun of their times), the “rocket launcher” that launched a salvo of arrows (the wasp as they call it), amongst many other amazing things too long to list here.

The Chinese were the first to really sail the seas with gigantic fleets, reaching Africa and North America sooner than Christopher Columbus ever did, but instead of committing mass genocide against the native Indians and forcing unwilling populations to conform to their religion, they instead returned to China (because China had everything anyways) after trading with foreigners peacefully.

Sun Tzu Art of War

Chinese people used their brains. They were not barbarians, but were strategists. I’m sure you have heard of The Art of War by Sun Tzu by now. That’s just one example, albeit the most famous one, in western society. Chinese people’s way of fighting was to win without fighting. Thus, in a pure one on one contest, they were rarely tested.

11. Warrior’s Mentality
The Chinese didn’t really have a warrior class because they didn’t really need one. Greeks had their “philosophers and boy lovers”, but also the Spartans as warriors. The Japanese, similar to the British, had to create their army and infuse them with the warrior’s mentality because they both came from a tiny island with nothing on it. The Japanese had to unite the samurai class with their modern army, and the English had to form the United Kingdom. They both needed to conquer other lands for resources to expand or else they would perish. Having a fiery need for conquest will produce great armies with an indomitable fighting spirit.

Once Upon A Time In China

If you want to learn all about this period of Chinese history, watch Jet Li in the Once Upon A Time in China films. He plays real life folk hero Wong Fei Hung and fights the foreign powers who are invading China and tearing his country apart. Jet Li is loved by the Chinese people for a reason, folks.

Chinese people didn’t have this mentality to go to war and take over other people’s lands because they never needed it. China had all the massive land and resources you could ever want, and that’s why the rest of the world came to China in the 18th and 19th centuries to trade with, and subsequently invade China. Back then, it wasn’t the Americans screaming at foreign immigrants to get out of their land, it was the Chinese screaming at invading foreigners to get out of China!

In addition to that, the Chinese were too busy fighting amongst each other (for thousands of years). China is a huge place, with over 50 ethnic Chinese groups wandering around the Middle Kingdom. Chinese had the Han and Manchurians as the brains, who ruled for centuries long, but the closest thing to a warrior class related to the Chinese region were the Mongolians. Shaolin Monks and the Jin Yi Wei (Brocade Guard, the Ming Dynasty Emperor’s personal elite assassination squad) don’t really count, as the Shaolin Monks are well, monks, and the Jin Yi Wei were a small covert group that carried out their missions in secret.

Mongolian blood! Coincidence? We think not.

Mongolian blood! Coincidence? We think not.

Mongolians were the strongest fighters and conquerors in the Middle Kingdom and took over most of the known world at one point, using their superior archery (the sniper rifle of their time), horseback riding and fighting skills, their Mongolian wrestling, and their strength from eating horse meat, sheep meat, and nomadic culture. It is no surprise then, that the only Chinese fighter who has made it into the UFC at this time, is none other than an ethnic Mongolian, Tiequan Zhang (who happens to be a national Mongolian wrestling champion… surprise surprise).

Factor #4:
Physical Limitations, Rules of the Sport, Jet Lag, and Weight Cutting

Chinese people have been held back by history, loved their Kung Fu too much, won’t admit they needed a grappling / ground game and are too stubborn to learn it, and Chinese society, parents, and family don’t care and aren’t supportive of them choosing the path to be a professional athlete. Those are a lot of negative elements going on already, but in case you still weren’t convinced, here are the final set of reasons.

12. Physical Limitations
Most southern and Han Chinese are at a physical disadvantage. This is just fact, they aren’t a huge people. Most weigh around the 100lb. to 150lb. range, being 5’3 to 5’8 in height on average, with average genes and athleticism. Northern Chinese fare better, are more muscular and taller, and have better physical attributes. But relatively speaking, they are also poorer, and probably don’t even know what MMA is yet. The Mongolians to the far north actually have the highest chances of doing well in MMA, as they grow up in a warrior culture that forces them to wrestle and farm everyday since they were boys (we will target this topic more in-depth in a future article), making them strong, durable, and grappling-centric from the very start.

Nutritionally speaking, Dim Sum doesn't give you much.

Nutritionally speaking, Dim Sum doesn’t give you much.

The Japanese are around the same size as the Chinese, but Koreans are significantly larger and stronger because of their Mongolian roots and their protein heavy diet. The Japanese eat a lot of raw fish, and a balanced amount of carbs and proteins. The Koreans are protein and vegetable heavy, eating more like Europeans. Now what do the Chinese eat? Pretty much nothing but useless carbs. Rice, buns, bread, noodles, mixed with greasy meats and veggies, and a lot of oily appetizers and snacks. They are neither protein heavy or vegetable heavy, and this makes them not very physically gifted.

That is also why, if you make a general comparison, Asians that grow up overseas in western countries, are reasonably taller and larger than their brethren back home. They eat what western people eat, and that is a lot more protein, calcium, and vitamins. They also are less cramped, live in sparser populated areas, in a larger room or house, and have physical space to grow. This may sound silly to some, but to give you an example; Hong Kong, a city that resembles a tiny dot on the world map, is inhabited by 8 million people. I don’t think there’s even 8 million people in some much larger towns, counties, or even provinces in other countries.


Wow, you’re really cute. But that won’t hurt a fly.

13. Rules of the Sport
It took us this far… and if you’re still reading this, you would probably know this one already. It’s a topic that’s been done to death, but the UFC, and the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts pretty much favours wrestlers. Let’s take a more in-depth look at the unified MMA rules and for argument’s sake, list every factor that may make strikers / Asian martial arts styles less effective in MMA:

Can't stop the takedown

Can’t stop the takedown!

- Athletic commissions and referees score and favour takedowns much more heavily than strikes or submissions. A wrestler can take someone down, hold them there, not inflict any damage and still stall out a “win”, because it is scored as “dominant”. By this logic, a BJJ practitioner should get points for regaining guard, advancing positions, and submission attempts, even if they don’t damage the opponent or finish the fight. By this logic then, Kung Fu guys should get points for how many times they choose NOT to poke someone’s eyes out from top or bottom guard, or hit them in the throat, thereby brutally killing a man. Of course we know this is not the case and we’re being a little silly, but it makes you think just “why?” takedowns / stalling without damage are scored?

A legal kick, by the way, because the moment he throws it Jones stands up. Now only if it landed...

A legal kick, by the way, because the moment he throws it Jones stands up. Now only if it landed…

- During the takedown, you’re not allowed to kick or knee the opponent if they are already touching the ground with more than two of their limbs. What? Isn’t this martial arts fighting? That’s pretty bogus. Instead of Wing Chun front kicking the guy in the face for crawling towards you ala douchebag Jon Jones style, you’re forced to “wrestle” with your opponent and develop takedown defense, instead of upkicking them in the face from open guard or elbowing the back of their skull during their shot. Furthermore, if you’re in the clinch and wish to knee the guy in the face, if he drops one of his hands to the ground, you’re not allowed to knee him in the head, only the body.

The Master of the Wall 'n Stall

The Master of the Wall ‘n Stall

- Almost all MMA fights nowadays take place in a cage. A cage helps wrestlers push an opponent into the wall and grab their legs out from under them. You’re not allowed to hit the back of the head, which means again, when you’re being pinned against the cage, you can’t smash their head / neck in.

- You can’t punish a failed takedown when you sprawl because you cannot drop knees to the head.

- Elbows are allowed on the ground, and theoretically a wrestler has more chances to be on top of his opponent which means he can really utilize these elbow strikes, but on the other hand the fighter on the bottom is not “allowed” to upkick the opponent’s face when they are down… and just which technique is more dangerous? The elbows coming down with the added force of gravity that can cut open a man’s face, of course.

Gomi had good wrestling, but he was known for being a knockout machine

Gomi had good wrestling, but he was known for being a knockout machine.

Back in PRIDE, a Japanese run organization, things were very different. Referees scored submissions and ground fighting more than takedowns that led to nothing, spelling the doom for most wrestlers with a lay and pray strategy (yellow cards were also issued for lay and prayers and inaction). You could also drop knees on a downed opponent or soccer kick them, meaning you would get punished for a failed takedown. Fights took place in a ring, where the ropes negated wrestlers pressuring an opponent against them, but had four corners that allowed strikers to back their opponent up to eat punches and kicks all night.

Mirko Cro Cop was the most feared striker in MMA at one point. He had great sprawl and brawl, but the ring also helped.

Mirko Cro Cop was the most feared striker in MMA at one point. He had great sprawl and brawl, but the ring also helped.

The sport has changed now, and if you wanted to make it to the big stage, you needed to learn how to fight inside a cage and know how to wrestle (to some degree). This doesn’t help with Chinese fighters who have the most difficulty adapting to grappling out of all other Asians.

14. Jet Lag
In interviews conducted with former PRIDE fighters and MMA veterans, with proof from scientific articles, it is a widely accepted conclusion that when you fly west (therefore heading East to places in East Asia), there is little to no jet lag, whereas when you fly east (heading back to the Western hemisphere), huge jet lag occurs. It is a bit of a scientific phenomenon, something I will not attempt to go into detail here. More often than not Asian fighters have to fly 12-14 hours to come fight in the United States, and one can see how this can greatly hamper their performance.

Dong Hyun Kim, a vocal advocator of having fairer fighting conditions for Asian fighters.

Dong Hyun Kim, a vocal advocator of having fairer fighting conditions for Asian fighters.

15. Weight Cutting
For one reason or another, Asians don’t cut weight. We’re not sure if it’s because they don’t know how to do it, or if they’re too “macho” and believe that you should fight at your “walking around” weight. In any case, the reality is that professional fighting has now become about your skill level and how much weight you can cut as well. You might’ve been able to get away with it 10 years ago, but now you have monsters that make 155lbs. and weigh 200lbs. on fight night. Just ask Caol Uno when he got clobbered by Gleison Tibau.

Poor Caol Uno got smashed because his opponent was actually about 200lbs.

Poor Caol Uno got smashed because his opponent was actually about 200lbs.

Conclusion: The Future of Chinese MMA?

As far as we know, there are a few MMA gyms popping up in major cities in China, Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan now. In terms of the talent they have produced so far, all of them have pretty much failed, except maybe China Top Team. In Hong Kong, the MMA debut of 3 stand-up based fighters all ended in losses. They continued to lose and subsequently were released from Legend Fighting Championships. As for China Top Team (situated in Beijing), many of the members are Sanshou practitioners transitioning to MMA and have been in the fight game for a while; many of them being too old already to make much of an impact in the UFC.

Ji Xian, a lone Chinese MMA prospect

Ji Xian, a lone Chinese MMA prospect

The lone, shining star in Chinese MMA however is none other than BJJ purple belt, and ADCC qualifier Ji Xian “The Executioner”. He is currently 10-2 in MMA, and a number of his wins are submissions in the first round. Outside of Ji Xian however, the playing field is pretty sparse and it’s anybody’s guess as to who may or may not be legit.


We need more of this.

The easy way to put it, is to wait 5-10 years for the Chinese to produce some legitimate MMA talent. The harder, more realistic question is this: If you are Chinese and you are reading this, are you part of the statistic that is too afraid, too lazy, or too unmotivated to train MMA? Or are you man enough to step up to the challenge? Better late than never, my brethren!

Dynasty Connection United We Stand

Too Long, Didn’t Read: Chinese people need to break away from their beloved tradition that has prevented them from fully embracing MMA. They must open their minds, adapt foreign training methods into their curriculum and train in modern martial arts (wrestling, grappling) in order to succeed in MMA. Then, finally, they may begin to use what is unique to Chinese Kung Fu, and adapt them to MMA to truly create a modern Chinese style suitable for MMA (such as Sanda / Sanshou) that will grant them a unique competitive edge.

It’s also Chinese New Year so we’re offering free shipping on everything, anywhere! Remember to check us out! 新年快樂!

Free shipping all month long!

Free shipping all month long!

-Dan Kai Wah from DynastyClothingStore.com
Dan Kai Wah is a Goju-Ryu Karate Black Belt (5 years), a WTF Taekwondo Black Belt (5 years), a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Blue Belt (3 years), has dabbled in a little bit of Wing Chun, and currently training MMA (2 years).


100 Comments on “Where Are The Chinese Fighters? – Why MMA Has Not Flourished In Chinese Society (In-Depth Analysis with Videos)”

  1. jonahewell says:

    Really well-written. I agree with everything except the bit about Chinese diet.

    “Rice, buns, bread, noodles, mixed with greasy meats and veggies, and a lot of oily appetizers and snacks. They are neither protein heavy or vegetable heavy, and this makes them not very physically gifted.”

    You just described the crap you can get at any typical Chinese restaurant in the United States, one that caters to mostly non-Chinese people. Why on earth do you think that’s what actual Chinese people in China eat?

    • Cantonese cuisine / dim sum basically has a lot of grease and fats. Shanghainese cuisine isn’t much better, favouring pork fat soup meats in their buns and dumplings. Perhaps you could enlighten us what you know of Chinese cuisine in other parts of China?

      • Carl Tomacruz says:

        What about Beijing and Sichuan cuisines?

      • Enol says:

        Tbh it’s a fair point, though often not by choice. The price of meats over there is shockingly high which leads to cheap cuts of meat (or complete replacement) in most normal cooking. This over time has in turn lead to the cuisines/styles of cooking adapting to the economic climate and replacing most high quality proteins with vegetable replacements such as soy products or offcuts. I found this particularly prevalent in universities and canteens when travelling over there. It’ll be a good while after the diet changes before the natural fighters start appearing.

    • Erin says:

      I enjoyed the article and I agree with most points. The food factor is an interesting angle but I don’t think it is valid only because every culture has their bad food, the American has the worst diet of all if you ask me. Unhealthy diet isn’t the reason why the Chinese haven’t developed MMA. But good article, and thanks for looking more deeply into the issue. It is a question many of my friends have raised and I never had a good answer for them.

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  4. I couldn’t resist commenting. Well written!

  5. thomasernste says:

    Reblogged this on thomasernste and commented:
    A fascinating walk through the history of martial arts and what it means today

  6. [...] Where Are The Chinese Fighters? – Why MMA Has Not Flourished In Chinese Society (In-Depth Anal… This chinaman disagrees [...]

  7. billybob says:

    Great article. Interesting part about physical attributes. I have noticed that southern chinese who grew up in the west are significantly taller than those in China. I have found though, that Northern Chinese are generally even taller and stronger than Koreans. But as you said, they’re too poor and probably don’t even know what mma is at the moment, but I think that will change very quickly.

    Apart from Ji Xian, I think Guan Wang and Tuerxun Jumabieke are big prospects too. Both are undefeated and apparently the UFC are eyeing Tuerxun very closely.

    • Thanks for reading. I think in about 5 years time, with Asian MMA promotions such as Legend FC, One FC, and RUFF making in roads to an untapped market such as China and acting as feeder organizations, we will begin to see a lot more prospects.

  8. charley says:

    Ficticious writing combined with factual aspects . The way to promote MMA propaganda . Real combat is on the field , the YouTube references is of mc dojo Chinese kung fu fighters getting defeated. I have personally witnesed real deadly fights and it doesn’t matter how well you train or what you train in . If you don’t fight as if your going to die , then you will lose , 7 out of 10 times

    • Fictitious? Perhaps you could shed some light on what is false about this article? We would like to hear your expert analysis. Also, what you just said is also an obvious foregone conclusion. Of course you’re not going to win if you don’t fight seriously. But then you’re implying that these Kung fu guys all don’t take their fights seriously then? Seriously? It’s because they’re not great at MMA, yet.

    • Also, your Kung Fu won’t help you in a “fight to the death” where the other guy can strike better, wrestle you down to the ground, pound you out, or rip off all your limbs with submissions. You can try to kick him in the groin and poke him in the eyes, but so can he, AND he knows everything that you don’t. Train MMA, my friend.

      • JansenFi says:

        No you can’t say mma fighters strike better. Punches and kicks are too basic and similar across martial arts for anyone to say that. It all boils down to the individual. You don’t have to actually kill to practice deadly techniques. As for wrestling, ground game, submissions etc those are already present in various kung fu styles…there is an unfair assumption that kung fu has none of these or doesn’t focus on these elements. As for groin kicks and eye pokes…yes anybody can do it but the kung fu guy will do it better since he practices it and he does it in the right stance. In a real fight to the death…..the moves you can get away with in mma are no longer applicable….if the guy is try to kick your nuts all the time…all that experience from mma is minimized. SO the kung fu guy is actually in his comfort zone. Another two points I would like to make…mma is probably something you don’t want to learn for self-defense if you are frail or old…also it is probably not very good for your joints in the long run.

      • Some of what you say has already been addressed. Yes we know Chinese Kung Fu has all those elements. What I would like to see is a guy using these techniques in modern MMA, to show the world Chinese style specific techniques applicable for MMA. Certain Kung Fu styles are better for self defense than MMA because it is more direct, but more often than not that is only useful against someone who *doesn’t know anything*. Once they know something, the Kung Fu gets neutralized. Again all talked about in the article. Yes of course it all depends on the individual but don’t act as if historically there has been a successful Kung Fu fighter because outside of Cung Le there hasn’t been one. They’ve all just been actors. Again, talked about already. Lastly, if all a Kung Fu guy trains is groin strikes, that’s pitiful because once that doesn’t work for him. ie. against someone whose actually an experienced striker, he’s screwed because he doesn’t know anything else.

  9. Usoff Tsao says:

    Very interesting and great read. Even though I’m not into MMA (clicked on this from a friend’s fb who is), a lot of points especially about the cultural aspect can be used to raise our Chinese kids to be happier and more well rounded people.

  10. Jon says:

    The first half of this article is very interesting. You have some good points, the restriction of martial arts under the communist government of course led to a lack of development and encouraged an overly romantic notion of a golden era in Chinese martial arts. This really stunted the growth of Chinese martial arts and killed innovation and massively affects it today.

    The second half of the article is reliant on simplifications and generalisations that haven’t been well researched at all. The idea that the Chinese as a culture isn’t interested in competitive sport is simply false. If you go back to the the republic era of China, after the fall of the Ching dynasty, before the second world war, Chinese martial arts clubs were very quick to take up Western ideas and adapted in numerous ways to make their arts more effective. Look up the Guoshu institure and the Jing Wu Athletic association, these were extremely popular and successful. They were also behind full contact fighting with minimal rule restrictions, sometimes resulting in death. If they were to have continued, they could easily have had a massive influence on MMA.

    The idea that Chinese people are less inclined to rough ungentlemanly sports is also missing context. Those ethnic Chinese that you meet in America are typically aspiring to a better life. This is more likely through study and work than fighting. This is similar to middle class immigrant communities the world over and is not exclusive to Chinese.

    Martial arts are hugely popular in China, in a way it is difficult to imagine. With time and investment it will take off big time!

    Nice article, well thought through, good to think about.

    • Jon says:

      One more thing to think about, is that many of the martial arts from China such as Chen style tai chi were developed by farmers prone to attack by bandits and militia. They were much more focussed on staying alive in a battlefield situation. These kind of ideas are really not translatable to MMA. Unless, you were to have 3 vs 3 or 5 v 5 fights. That would be massively interesting!! and I would love to see it… I’m a massive fan of ground grappling, but in that situation it really wouldn’t be a good idea… Wouldn’t happen though.

      • Of course we know that Kung fu styles came from the poor or weak trying to protect themselves, came from self defense tactics, etc. But they haven’t evolved to adapt to other fighting styles and this is where it becomes weak. Something like Sanda is great, but there must be more of this. There must be someone in china who trains in traditional backgrounds but smart enough to adapt the style to MMA. A brand new style we haven’t even seen yet. That’s what I want to see.

    • Thanks for your points. I would love to have you write a follow up to this article and I shall share it on this blog and the MMA community with full credit to you, if you wish to do so, since you may have more insight than I.

      However one thing you overlooked, what about the rich and wealthy immigrant Chinese? They don’t have to study or work necessarily yet you don’t find them doing the “poor man’s” thing of training hardcore Kung fu or MMA. I still believe a large part of it is Chinese people’s disinterest in MMA and actual combat sports.

      • Jon says:

        Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I don’t have so much time right now to write a full article. However, I will consider doing so over the summer as I’ll have more time to clarify some thoughts and look through some sources.

        In regards to the question about wealthy immigrant Chinese, as a generalisation, wealthy immigrant communities in any country have an interest in maintaining their wealth. The primary way this is likely to happen is to continue to follow the business and education line, rather than getting involved in trying to reach the top in the sporting world. This again is true of any immigrant community and is not unique to Chinese in the USA.

        With the history of martial arts in China, it would be really nice to see some more direct influence in MMA. In terms of new techniques, changes in style are more likely to come from within the current MMA community around the world rather than from outside it. Purely because MMA is a game, and those within the game are so good at it, it would be very difficult to add to it from the outside. That said, Chinese martial arts have been around for a long time. In terms of fighting mentality, principle, connection, alignment, balance and these type of qualities, Chinese martial arts have much to offer MMA fighters. In terms of specific technique, MMA is too far ahead now. Chinese fighters would have to learn the MMA game, make it their own and adapt it from there. It is however, far too easy for western MMA fans to write off traditional Chinese arts. For the patient student, there is still a treasure trove of knowledge, wisdom and fighting strategy to be found.
        Peace

  11. chinanomad says:

    might want to revise your opinion about the diet.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/healthy-living/use-your-noodle-the-real-chinese-diet-is-so-healthy-it-could-solve-the-wests-obesity-crisis-873651.html

    also note the last point about the health benefits of qigong type exercise…

  12. will Never be a sick man. says:

    Simple reason. Chinese are paper tigers….if you watch any chinese fighting video the other guy always stop for the chinese masters to show off….real life people don’t stop, same with UFC they don’t stop and let you show off bullshit animal techniques…they beat the shit out of you chinese, that’s why you chinese are scare to death and make lame excuses for the sick men of asia.

  13. wujialing says:

    Great article! Well-written and very informative. I think all the factors are right on the money, especially the Chinese cultural emphasis on money, family and societal attitudes towards combat sports and the historical turmoil that China endured these past two centuries. The point about overseas Chinese being bigger than mainland Chinese is true. I am 6’0″ and am taller than the majority of Chinese students and co-workers at the university I work at. Hopefully with the passage of time, we’ll see more Chinese fighters in the UFC! I want to see more Sanshou based fighters try their hand at MMA and take on the Muay Thai/Boxing based fighters. Cung Le was great, but he’s a little old and past his prime now. That Ji Xian kid looks interesting…

  14. Sam says:

    The article raises some interesting points and things to think about however it is pretty obvious not a lot of this is information has not been researched or deeply enough.

    A lot of your claims seem to be your own speculation drawn from what you do know so while there is some truth, there are quite a number of things that are completely false even if it seems to make sense (to those who don’t know any better). For example, one of your more obvious false claims is that you need “have physical space to grow” and while it makes sense, it just isn’t true unless you actually lived in a box. While I am not saying you have to get a phd, try not to make assumptions such as “Chinese people didn’t have this mentality to go to war and take over other people’s lands because they never needed it.” because I’m pretty sure the size of China has varied in history.

    Though I like the amount of effort you put into this and I can see your passion for martial arts, you are actually doing a disservice to those who don’t know any better and take everything you say at face value. Please don’t take this as me being condescending to you as it is not my intent. Hopefully this doesn’t discourage you from writing more articles, just try to google a couple of things even if you think it makes sense. I look forward to reading more of your stuff in the future. :)

    • Thanks for reading. Just 2 quick thoughts on what you said:

      – A good number of people (1/4) in Hong Kong live in compressed cages or government housing complexes no larger than a few hundred square feet. A whole family sleeping on one bed in some cases. That’s millions and millions of people. Only a few percentage of the rich live in places considered more western living standards.

      – China has always fought within itself encompassing many dynasties and also against mongol, manchurian, khitan invasions. Our sole foreign affairs explorer in Zheng He settled in parts of North America and Africa but never committed mass genocide like Colombus and returned to China after peaceful trade. China already had everything we needed. It’s within our culture to be benevolent (Confucianism). If you deny that, then you don’t know much about Chinese culture.

      • Sam says:

        Again, an area of a few hundred square feet is not enough to keep people short. I doubt if a person living in a closet would even be affected by the cramped space. Whereas factors such as nutrition (which you accurately pointed out) and genetics are the real influences.

        I agree that China has never genocide (at least one that I am aware of). Sorry if I misunderstand your point. But my problem is I think you are saying that our culture (yep I’m Chinese too) promotes benevolence (due to Confucianism) which is the reason that MMA has not flourished in China. Well, that could be a reason if was before the CCP but during Mao’s reign, he abolished these ideas (leading to the greed as well as atheism nowadays in China) so I don’t think you can really say this is a valid factor in modern China. In your article, you have also stated that the Koreans are producing waves of skilled fighters but Confucianism has been embraced there moreso than in China (at least in the present time). So your argument that it is the Confucianism (or a part of it) is a reason doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to me.

        “If you deny that, then you don’t know much about Chinese culture.” While I disagree with this remark, I’m not going to go any further into that as our ideas are probably too different.

        A question that did pop into my mind as I was typing this response is what are you referring to by “MMA”? Do you mean the actual term “mixed martial arts” where one uses two different martial arts or what is being marketed as a pseudo-style which is a mixture of muay thai and BJJ?
        If you do mean the former one, then there is a lot more I feel is inaccurate about the article.

        If you would like to continue this discussion could you give me your email as I would rather not keep trying to find my posts on this website.

  15. Bjgr says:

    Wow. One of the most racist articles I’ve read in a while. Not even going to make this long since you probably won’t care for anything a traditional martial artist would say if you’ve got a bias against it.

  16. splooge says:

    great read. The part about family pressure sounds an awful like indian culture. Same story with the poorer but taller and stronger northeners( but at least in SFl Brat Kandare won a belt whom is the sterotypically weaker south indian)

    Id like to see this “data” on how shanshou trumps Muay Thai. SInce to me Thai boxing looks more brutal, though I admit sanda throws are hella cool.

    Anthony Pettis, Benson Henderson, and Anderson Silva dont even use any taekwondoe moves what so ever like GSP never uses karate except for the spinnin back kick.

    What do you think of the Turkic people indiginous to Xinjiang province in the north aka the ethnic hui or uyghers?
    They are of central asian origin like the mongols, I think they could do well as well.

    • Pettis, Henderson, and Silva all use Taekwondo kicks. Pettis especially, all of his flashy kicks are TKD based. Anderson throws the back kick TKD style. Henderson isn’t a great TKD striker but still uses the kicks. GSP has attributed his double leg takedown to his Kyokushin karate base which taught him how to move in and out quickly resulting in a quick shoot. China just needs to take MMA more seriously as a national pursuit, then great athletes will follow. It’s not like they can’t produce Olympic gold medalists.

  17. Lei says:

    You make some very good points, but you also make some really broad generalizations (which is why it can sound a bit racist). Also…if you can read Chinese…you’d know that 武術 does not mean to avoid fighting…it literally translates to martial arts. You’re mistaking 武, which means martial/military, for 無.

    • Lei says:

      The biggest problems with this post are the cultural arguments. If China didn’t have a competitive sports culture they would suck at the Olympics, and you wouldn’t have examples like Yao Ming, Liu Xiang, Li Na, Jeremy Lin, or the Chinese gymnastics team, amongst many many other examples. The entire thing about Chinese people fighting with brain and not brawn is patently false, not just on Chinese combat history, but non Chinese combat history. There are some very prominent manuals on tactics from Western Europe, yet we don’t assert that Western Europe emphasizes brawn and not brain. The combat histories of every culture has ample emphasis on both the physical and mental aspects of fighting. Chinese culture also doesn’t look down on fighting any more than any other cultures do. It’s typical for upper income families to dissuade against physical combat to resolve differences, but it’s a very common norm that exists in the lower class of every culture. My parents grew up being taught that the only way to deal with a bully was to stand up with yourself. If that meant fighting, all the better. My dad grew up in a village where fighting was a common sport.

      I’m sure you didn’t intend to reinforce any stereotypes, but you should probably avoid drawing any inferences from a narrow anecdotal experience of upper middle income Chinese Diaspora life, and test your assertions with research before making them conclusions.

      • Lei says:

        One more thing. China has had A LOT of wars throughout its history. When China wasn’t waging war with itself to decide the death and birth of empires, it was constantly either fending off nomadic tribes from the North or else using military power to subdue and control vassal states around its borders. Why do you think those military manuals were even written?

      • China has fought a lot within itself, but never strived to take over other lands. I often wonder was it because we already had too much war to deal with, and couldn’t find time to conquer others? Or did we just suck? Or were we just too nice?

      • Lei says:

        There is literally no difference between competing factions in China fighting to consolidate control and unify the empire and Japan’s feudal lords fighting for control to consolidate and unify the empire.

      • I think there is a bit of difference. Great Britain and Japan were great at conquering other lands and installing puppet governments and propaganda, same with the Spanish with their spread of their religious propaganda and subsequent acts of genocide. I’m sure there’s cultural differences that allowed them to achieve such feats, as Zheng He had peaceful trade with the overseas people and returned to China.

      • Like we touched on in the article, aside from producing Olympic champions, China doesn’t care to produce fighters or fighters for MMA. Until they decide to care, nothing will change. Also Jeremy Lin is Taiwanese.

        Not to repeat what you said, but if you think in general that the rich do not have to fight and the poor do and is not exclusive to Chinese people (which I agree with), then explain why Americans / western folks do not shy away from fighting and sports as Americans have high school and college wrestling programs and the English / Irish love to box? It is naive to say to yourself oh my Asian parents would totally support me in sports and fighting… when you and I both know that has very little place in Chinese culture and is very much looked down upon more than any other culture. All Chinese people want is martial arts, but not fighting. They would disown their kids for pursuing fighting, and has happened before on the news.

    • I got this knowledge from the film Huo Yuan Jia aka Fearless by Jet Li which Michelle Yeo talked about the word. If it is in fact wrong then you may blame them for adding that part into the uncut version of the film. And no, I am not confusing the two words because they are quite different from each other.

  18. […] 7,000-word article I wrote on why there were no high-level Chinese fighters in modern combat sports “Where Are The Chinese Fighters?”, I decided to make a short film that I hope will not only inspire people out there–especially […]

  19. […] 7,000-word article I wrote on why there were no high-level Chinese fighters in modern combat sports “Where Are The Chinese Fighters?”, I decided to make a short film that I hope will not only inspire people out there–especially […]

  20. Vann says:

    @dynastyclothingstore.com

    What a Retard. MMA is shit dude for the real world. IS only good for fair 1 vs 1 competitions or you can even take more people if they have zero fighting abilities. But in the Real World.. Any UFC MMA champion will be destroyed in seconds in a street fight as soon there are no rules and everything is valid. MMA fighting in the ground is USELESS , if you have to fight 2 or more Kung Fu fighters . All that you need to disable someone is a really good kick in the face to an MMA fighters and game over. On top that Martial Artist focus too a lot in using weapons. Lets take your kickboxing heroes vs martial artist using knives and swords? In short your an IDIOT.
    MMA is only about Sport . And those UFC champions that you talk., without martials arts will be no one. You just can’t say “train MMA” and nothing else. The problem is not Kung FU or martial arts.. But that 1)MMA arenas are confined to small place ,when freedom of movement is restricted you can be easily moved to the ground. 2)The Rules.. many martial arts depends HIGHLY on control your opponent doing things Not legal under MMA rules. AIkido for example is not allowed in MMA for being too destructive.you cant use this or this or that.. in other words UFC rules benefit MMA fighting ,more than martial arts who fight without rules. What will your MMA heroes do against Guns or knives?.. if they have no real martial arts training with weapons? MMA training is only for competitive combat sports dude..like boxing .Get over it. for fair fights, For the real world when it comes to save your life ,you need to train in real Martial Arts and not limit to just one. This is the reason No single Armed forces in the world train their soldiers in MMA.. but instead on martial Arts. NAvy seals gets owned in UFC by simple MMA fighters.. but in the real world they will kill you,with a simple knife or a gun. Good luck in any of your uploaded videos ,to win a fight ,fighting in the ground if someone pulls a hiden knife or if his friend is kicking you in the face.

    Your article had a good start with history ,but was ruined later by your preconceived ideas
    against Kung Fu or martial arts in general.

    Here look.. an MMA hero being destroyed by a Kung Fu fighter.

    Even a really Good Boxer ,can beat the hell of any Good MMA fighter if the boxer is more smart ,and understand what his opponent can do. After all dude.. 1 solid Punch is ALL you need to end a fight.

    Former boxing champion Ricardo Mayorga defeating an MMA fighter..

    See? anyone can do that.. pull a single video and generalize and say “this is the way it is.”
    if you want to win..”learn MMA” bla bla bla.. Morale of the story is. training MMA does not make you a better fighter.Using your brains does. Martial arts like Kung Fu and combat techniques like boxing are just Tools.. Anderson Silva who many calls him the best world MMA fighter latest fight..was against a champion boxer and even though the boxer lost ,Silva was put in serious trouble many times ,and was seriously wounded..

    • Hey friend, I think you missed the entire point of the article… maybe you should read it again. I’m not arguing that everyone needs to train MMA in order to know how to fight… I’m saying this is what Chinese people are doing wrong if they think only training Kung Fu is enough, and the reasons that lead to why we don’t see many Chinese fighters. Read it again please. Also, if you want to talk about street fighting, you should read this: http://dynastyclothingstore.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/how-to-dans-no-bs-guide-on-fighting-multiple-attackers-with-videos/

      And if you want to talk about the “rules” of the sport, there was an entire area dedicated to that… which shows you didn’t really even read my entire article. I also talk about why this has nothing to do with which martial art is more effective (and traditional martial arts, because they are actually very effective when used correctly), which shows again you didn’t read my article and missed the whole point.

      Next time, instead of name calling, read the whole thing first and keep an open mind. That’s the problem with Chinese people, they can’t keep an open mind to new ideas. I myself as an overseas Chinese, can see this problem from both sides of the coin.

  21. Vann says:

    i already proved you your wrong. My uploaded Kung Fu videos only purpose was to do EXACTLY what you just did.. pick videos and proof a point. And proved you that MMA is shit in real world. What else you want?

    When i say Traditional martial arts ,i mean Martial Arts with Solid background in any type of combat.. Not just sports combat arts..like MMA ,that lacks of solid background for any kind of situation on real world fight. Gave you already 2 examples. Aikido and Krav Maga… but since you wants to continue being a retard.. Go and learn Sports MMA ,”to improve your fighting skills”. done with you.. im sorry for wasting my time with retards.. LOL

  22. Vann says:

    BTW.. are you going to allow people in this blog to see how TWO MMA UFC heroes were crushed in Brazil in a street fight by regular guys? LOL

    http://www.mmamania.com/2013/7/8/4504610/video-ufc-bellator-veteran-maiquel-falcao-knocked-out-by-2×4-in-wild

    Stop misleading people with your MMA sponsoring propaganda. thanks Bye!

  23. Vann says:

    oh btw.. this is old news ,that obviously you don’t know ,but Anderson Silva.. The best MMA UFC fighter for many experts.That is UFC greatest MMA hero disagree with you.. Of Aikido “not working.” ..

    here Anderson Silva an MMA hero , being trained by an AIkido Master, Steven Seagal
    defense techniques. :)

    As always your again wrong.

  24. Ranjit Mishra says:

    Nice article. I like you man. I like your open mindedness to Martial arts. And I love MMA too.

    And yes I have read your whole article too. ;-)

    This is Ranjit Mishra from Delhi, India.

    I have been training in Kung Fu for 5 years. And not any traditional Kung Fu style. I have very few knowledge of Kung Fu. I know some of my Kung Fu techniques and then Sanda and then Muay Thai for 2 years. Iam teaching Kung Fu, actually my Kung Fu style which is a mixture of Kung Fu + Sanda + Muay Thai, so that i can perfect my skills. From the past few months, I have been continously trying to evolve my Kung Fu technique against MMA techniques. And i have been successfull in eveloving some good techniques except Groin and eye pokes which everyone keeps saying.

    However i really want to learn Ground fighting techniques so that i can develop more counters
    againt MMA (on streets). And also in sports too.

    Right now i have started learning Kalaripayattu from a very good master. And he knows wrestling (Kushti) too. So I will get the knowledege of ground fighting from their. However iam very much interested in knowing Marma Kala (Dim Mak in Kung Fu). i think this is the most superior form of knowledge one can ever get. But sadly it will take another 8 to 10 years of practice. :-(

    MMA vs Kung Fu:
    MMA is really a very good self defense art. I think one of the best. However it lacks something.
    For kids, Kung Fu is the best art to choose. Because it will give them more flexibility, strength (may be), Longevity, meditation knowledge and the most important it will make them a Good Human being which I think a western culture cannot provide.

    So I think if ground fighting is added to todays prevailing Kung Fu style, then it is perfect for everyone. Except that forms practice (I hate it).

  25. Good article and you touched briefly on the communist repression of kungfu plus the inherent wrestling bias in the UFC. The Main issue with Kungfu is that when the Communist took over they banned Kungfu and started killing off the masters. The remaining ones fled to Hong Kong, Taiwan, Thailand and other places enriching their martial arts. 95% percent of the kungfu you see is so watered down that it doesn’t even compare to how it originally was. MMA people think that they invented all these moves and styles but most of them came from Kungfu. They used to train in their own striking style plus chi-na (breaks and locks where judo and akido got them from) plus Chinese Wrestling (which is where judo came from) so they originally had ALL of that but only in the 1900’s starting getting away from it and when it was banned people just started doing wushu which looked pretty and took most of the martial out of the art. These fraud wushu “masters” then started training people and since they didn’t fight anybody and were Chinese, people believed their lies. So of course this bootleg watered down version of Kungfu is getting it’s ass kicked because it’s not the real thing. In my opinion Kungfu doesn’t need to evolve it needs to go back to it’s roots. For the people who say it doesn’t work then Judo/Jujitsu, Akido and Karate wouldn’t work either because they are all descended from Kungfu.

    Here is some info so people can learn some knowledge:
    The original Chinese Martial Arts, a combat wrestling system called Jiao Li (Strength and Endurance Skills), was systematised during the Zhou Dynasty (1122-256 BC). This military combat wrestling system, the first combination of fighting techniques historically employed by the Imperial Army, consisted of throws, hand and foot strikes, seizing joints, attacking vital parts and breaking joints in context of throwing. All of these elements of fighting skills were practised in training during the winter months and used in hundreds of battles in ancient China. It is the root and the foundation of Chinese martial arts.

  26. Andrei says:

    MMA is street fight,but with limited space.Chinesse don’t learn martial arts to fight,as you know,they learn to improve their strenght and health.I’m sorry,but if Bruce Lee was living,he would kick all your mma fighters,and send them back from where they came.Before you talk about shaolin,go watch yourself,go in China and see their strenght,and talk after.You just need to understand that the chinesse style is the best style,for health,self-defense and fight.

  27. urbanart says:

    their shooting an ultimate fighter in china right now with cung le as an advisor

  28. Dennis C says:

    If MMA is an Olympic Sport like Taekwondo and Judo where gold medals and national pride at stake, I believe China fighters can be world beaters! The Chinese government will probably send their army into MMA training with scientific methods, and out of millions of trainees , don’t you think they will outnumber other countries? Asian society is group mentality unlike individual mentality of western culture.

  29. Kungfu Fighter Remnant says:

    Great blog you have there with nice write ups. To add up more info, China Commies didn’t really lift the ban on Kungfu completely. They do not encourage and indirectly forbid Kungfu practitioners from learning how to fight in Kungfu. Only small numbers get to train Kungfu for fighting and actually know how to fight in authentic Kungfu. In which I am 1 of the remnants, got it from 1 master who came here for better prospect.

    As for Wushu, the Chinese turned to Sanshou for fighting and numbers of them adopted MMA when they find Sanshou losing to Muay Thai. Please note the Japanese and Koreans who embraced MMA today didn’t get to win big in UFC after all. They are still somewhat inferior to Caucasian in terms of brute strength. Chinese who embraced MMA will only fare around the level of Japanese/Korean counterpart.

    I’ll be fighting in the local MMA audition using authentic Kungfu, probably the first as there is none ever show up so far. Ignore those amateurs inexperienced who never fought the basic free sparring who lost in MMA competition. They don’t even aim where they hit which shows they don’t have actual fighting experience. Also, they don’t know how to counter grappling, another inexperience there. I’ll make the first Kungfu vs MMA fight this coming March if everything goes as planned. I’ve fought local MMA fighters before and I have my counter grappling which makes “Baby Monkey” no longer works. I don’t know Monkey Fist much but I’ll add in some of their moves to show they are in fact effective.

  30. Sasaki Ken says:

    Hey brother, I wanted to make some comments and also to address some of the stupid/pacifist “martial artists” who do not understand martial arts, neither traditional nor MMA nor any other..

    I have a background in traditional, old-school TKD (black belt), trained ITF (North Korean style) and contact-style as well as okinawan karate, some wing chun, a year in Muay Thai (still training Muay Thai), some boxing, and Kyokushin Karate as my new main style (trained in it for about a year).

    I am mainly a striker, so I can’t really get into details about grappling or groundgame because those are essentially non-existent for me, and I plan on starting to learn those starting this year/month.

    In regards to all the traditional martial artists stuck in one style.

    You traditional martial artists who do not understand Jeet Kun Do or development of your own personal style to fit your own UNIQUE body and fighting abilities, are complete fucking idiots.

    First of all, if you believe you can truly learn to fight without actually fighting, you are a complete fucking idiot.

    You cannot learn self defense or fighting without actually fighting in free-style full-contact, no-protective gear type fights.

    Even that is still simulation and has its flaws. But it is better to fight and spar

    FULL CONTACT, BARE KNUCKLE, NO PROTECTIVE GEAR, NO CUP, NO MOUTHGUARD,

    than to not spar or fight at all. Of course for safety, mouthguard and cup are probably good to have, but the rest should be discarded and you should ONLY be wearing your clothing, cup, and mouthguard and NOTHING ELSE.

    Of course no protective gear and bare knuckle is dangerous if you punch the head for both your knuckles and the person’s face. This is why Kyokushin does not allow punching to the head, which is why Kyokushin is weak in that area and must be learned alongside Boxing or Muay Thai.

    Having been in a few street fights, including against KuKluxKlan skinhead types where I my life was actually at risk (and I ended up running away after messing up one guy’s knee, as is the smart thing to do), I can say that most “traditional” martial arts aka bullshido arts like no-sparring wing chun or protective-gear TKD like WTF-Olympic TKD style are bullshit.

    They will make you fit and teach you some basics of fighting, but real fighting is a lot messier and not based on points.

    This is why I like Kyokushin-kai karate. It is you win either by KO, TKO, or decision. No such thing as points, and even a decision win is unsatisfying.

    Kyokushin itself is a combination of Okinawan karate, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, some boxing, and Shotokan Karate (as well as some circular styles of karate descended from Chiense martial arts).

    Choi Bae Dul aka Mas Oyama created the style after traveling around and learning many different styles and creating his own personal style.

    You seem to not realize that Chinese martial arts was mangled by the communists.

    While the communist message of brothers should not kill other brothers, Chinese should not kill other Chinese is true, getting rid of all martial arts DOES NOT HELP CHINESE PEOPLE IN THE LONG RUN.

    Turning it into performance farce like Wushu is also BULLSHIT.

    The words WU3 SHU4 武術 / 武术 DO NOT even mean that dancing BULLSHIT

    Chinese martial arts in the past, especially LEI TAI fighting was KILL OR BE KILLED.

    THAT WAS/IS REAL CHINESE MARTIAL ARTS.

    San4 Shou3 or San4 Da3

    散打

    That is MUCH closer to REAL CHINESE MARTIAL ARTS.

    Also, no weight training or strength conditioning in much of the watered-down “traditional Chinese martial arts”

    All of you CHinese who think you know Chinese martial arts are stupid. Shaolin monks have ALWAYS done weight training or training resistance by pulling or pushing against Oxen. All Chinese used to use 20 to 45 lb weapons or pole-staffs, like Guan Yu, for total body training as well as pushing rocks, chopping down trees, lifting heavy logs, etc.

    In the past, ALL WARRIORS did WEIGHT TRAINING.

    Especially TRUE with HUNG GAR.

    Or the way TRUE TRADITIONAL MUAY THAI FIGHTERS TRAIN by KICKING BANANA TREES AND HARDENING SHINS.

    Soft style is a styles take a VERY LONG TIME TO MASTER and is not even always useful, which is why styles like tai4 ji2 quan2 are not usefel, ESPECIALLY in today’s style.

    You are better off learning hard styles and combining it with linear and circular styles/motions.

    most circular styles/sub-styles also help you effectively be a “soft-style” practitioner in their ability to teach you methods of deflection, attack, and dodging/movement that do not harm you, but allows you do to more damage to your opponent.

    Sabaki method of Kyokushin karate is developed from this.

    Northern styles like Chang Quan in the past at the very least had full contact type sparring, but all of these traditions have been lost and forgotten because of communism and other bullslhit western influences as well as Manchurian barbarians (I am part Manchurian callingmyself barbarian lol), oppressing Han Chinese and destroying lots of martial arts.

    Do you not remember such as during the Han Dynasty and especially the 三国时代, when REAL military arts were required or in the past like during parts of the Ming or late Song Dynasty. It was and has ALWAYS been KILL OR BE KILLED to fight for the 国.

    The reality of martial arts is kill or be killed, not Buddhist pacifism philosophy that in actuality gets you nowhere.

    Kill or be Killed.

    Remember that.

    You kill to protect your love ones.

    Just as in “Rurouni Kenshin”: “In reality, Kenjutsu is the art of killing. That is the reality. The cold-hard reality. However, I like Ms. Kaoru’s way of putting it: learning to fight to protect your loved ones.”

    But the reality remains the same. You have to do unpleasant things sometimes to protect your loved ones.

    Not all situations you can talk people out of. You should always seek to de-escalate or seek a peaceful solution.

    However, if we are talking about barbaric/racist white people and western imperialists or American Imperialists who want your resources and will rape your women, and THEY DID MASS RAPE EAST ASIAN WOMEN (like in Japan and Okinawa right after WWII, China during the Opium wars, Korea, and Vietnam), then you cannot reason with them.

    You must fight them till death.

    Same with the Nanjing Massacre by the crazy Japanese-western imperialists who were going by Prussian/German/Western Imperialist culture and thought-process. However, remember that many Japanese opposed that imperialism and it was only AFTER westernization and Meiji-Revolution/Rebellion that Japan became such an imperialist/genocidal country.

    Sorry, I feel the need to explain this because I am part Japanese and there is so much misinformation and portraying all Japanese as the absolute devil when much of the massacre/tragedy/dishonor at Nanjing were because of the imperialist bastards who took over after the Meiji Revolution and were INFLUENCED GREATLY BY AMERICAN GENOCIDE OF NATIVE AMERICANS AND BRITISH AND PRUSSIAN IMPERIALIST DOCTRINES AND THOUGHT PROCESS- BASICALLY THEY COPIED WHITE PEOPLE AND HAD PEOPLE LEARN FROM WHTIES/AMERICANS/EUROPEANS.

    Before WWII and before Meiji REvolution, Japan was very peaceful and often sent scholars to learn from China. They only invaded China and the rest of East Asia a grand total of TWO TIMES before the Meiji Revolution in very limited warfare.

    Even remember that during the 三国era and 秦始皇 era of China was when most of modern day Japanese migrated from China to Japan.

    These western imperialist whites see ALL OF US, we East Asians as subhumans and deserving of death.

    You cannot reason with people like that nor will any Buddhist or Zen philosophy work.

    Especially those MMA thugs and barbarians. You kill them. That is the only language they understand. Death by brutal beating.

    You do not show respect to adversaries who do not deserve respect, such as all of these MMA thugs and pieces of shit (except respectable people like Lyoto Machida or GSP)

    For China to be strong again, Chinese must stand up and REGAIN the old Han PRIDE and beat the SHIT out of white arrogant pieces of shit who spit on Chinese and all East Asians, especially their MMA culture. which is just more manifestation of western imperialist arrogance.

    漢朝萬歲!!

    漢民萬歲!!

    The reason Chinese ended up being invaded by so many countries was because of the amount of retarded pacifism and complacency, though first of all whites and western europeans used very underhanded tactics such as Opium.

    Chinese and East Asians must look to great warriors and warlords of the past like Zhang Fei, Guan Yu, Liu Bei, Lu Bu, Zhao Zi Long, Ma Chao, Yue Fei, You Xia, or Japanese warriors like Miyamoto Musashi, Sasaki Kojiro as INSPIRATION.

    Not some pacifist “martial artists” from the late 1800s who failed to stop western imperialism and the British and were living under Man Zu/Manchu rule.

    ——————-

    As for western “superiority”

    You know that the west/whites/western imperialist barbarians have had 200-500 years of better nutrition, right?

    They committed genocide on the Native Americans, Australian Aboriginals, New Zealanders, enslaved blacks, divided up the MIddle East and Africa and later on East Asia.

    They did all this and stole all those resources and got so much real-estate, especially in the USA.

    Had so many more resources, so that is why their kids were able to eat better for generations, leading to greater height.

    WHites, before stealing all that land and resources and foods were no stronger or taller than any other race out there.

    It is because of western imperialism and the centuries of better nutrition that give them this advantage.

    But even this is destructive in the long-run, as there are limited resources on Earth and the west/whites overconsume and overuse. They wage wars, especially in the Middle East at present to acquire MORE resources because of their greed and racism.. They plan to target China once again in the coming decades.

    Their belief is always “bigger is better”.

    But the truth is that smaller always overcomes large. This is also the philosophy and truth of Kyokushin Karate.

    Bigger people and westerners who only know how to use brute force, are that way because they are animals. All of the MMA and other fighting are also in the context only of their rules, which favor wrestling and grappling and ground-fighting, most of which is useless in real-fighting, especially if there are no rules concerng things such as breaking knees or attacking the joints, which a smaller person could easily do against a bigger person, and especailly so if the smaller person is strong for his size.

    You are probably not aware as well of the amount of steroid use and precise-scientific/steroid training methods western/American/white fighters go through alongside the centuries of better diet and nutrition due to their theft of resources from the rest of the world.

    Notice that African Americans are also significantly larger and put on more muscle than the majority of Africans from AFrica.

    Even Asian Americans (who lift weights and eat a more western diet) and Koreans vs. Asians/the rest of Asia.

    But in the long run, all of this overconsumption is destructive to the planet.

    ————–

    My overall point is to say that a lot of this is rooted in western imperialist history and the unfair advantage the west has due to the underhanded tactics they used in the past and present and their hoarding of resources.

    And also that this is all self-destructive stuff.

    However, Chinese and other “traditional” martial arts must regain their old roots of fighting and training for REAL fighting as in simulating real fighting as much as possible through full contact no protective gear knockdown style sparring and fighting. Simply by changing and applying your techniques in those conditions makes a huge difference.

    There are many Chinese martial arts with a wealth of knowledge and striking/grappling curriculums that are extremely useful, and especially the underrated palm-strike techniques (also used in Kyokushin and some Okinawan karate schools).

    As for the size and diet problem.

    Americans and the west will eventually self-destruct or the rest of the world will say enough is fucking enough. Their greed knows no bounds and they have been stealing resources from the rest of the world for centuries now. And resources are limited.

    They may believe bigger is better or Bigger/Faster/Stronger, however, in real-battle, especially battles with arrows or bullets, the bigger and more lumbering you are, the greater your chances of dying, fast, and brutally.

    This explains how corrupt and disgusting most Americans/westerners are and how hypocritical and how much they cheat, especially with steroids.

    You can bet your ass all of the fighters you see in American MMA/UFC are roiding and cheating in many ways.

    And many of them try to make the case that steroids are “not” cheating.

    http://kojutsukan.blogspot.com/2011/01/shorter-people-have-certain-advantages.html

    “Shorter People Have Certain Advantages In Fighting And Warfare.
    Although brute strength can be a valuable asset in hand-to-hand combat, many highly effective warriors have been small, such as the Gurkhas of Nepal who have been noted as being the fiercest and most effective warriors in recent times. The Japanese have also demonstrated great warrior skills as have the Viet Cong of Vietnam. Many native American tribes of relatively short men were noted for their fighting skills, such as the Commanches, Apaches, and Navajo (Samaras, 1994). The relatively short Gordon highlanders of Scotland were also exceptional warriors (Allinson, 1981). The Greeks and Romans were relatively short but very effective warriors. Audie Murphy, who was shorter and lighter (165cm and 50kg) than the average US soldier, was the most decorated war hero in WWII.

    Being small may be an advantage in field combat based on statistician Frances Galton who calculated that a tall that a 33% higher risk of being killed in combat compared to a shorter one. Sarna et al (1993) also reported that basketball players in the Finnish military had the highest combat death rate during WWII. In contrast, the shorter athletes had the lowest combat mortality.(54)”

    This is to give a boost to the esteem of my fellow “short” or “manlet” brothers.

    http://www.wphna.org/htdocs/2011_mar_wn3_comm_small.htm

  31. Craig says:

    Hi I enjoyed your article and think you are right about Chinese deficiency in fighting. I feel conflicted because although I enjoy watching fights and would love to see more high quality Chinese fighter I also think the rise of MMA as sport reflects a decaying culture – similar to the gladiator games of ancient Rome. While Rome was falling apart the gladiator games provided distraction through the entertainment of brutality, but when Christianity came as a new unifying influence, the gladiator games were called off. I wonder, in the modern west, with the weakening of Christainty as a cultural influence, it has turned to brutality again as a distraction to it’s social/economic/political problems – hence the rise of MMA. Now, to be good at competetive MMA you must live and breathe brutality – but do we want that if it reflects a decaying culture? And I think, with all of it’s problems, what China wants to be is a substantial, long – sustaining culture different from the west. Did China ever have a glorious fighting spectacle comparable to the gladiator games?

  32. shalom69 says:

    You’d be better off just focusing on the substantive portions of your argument, rather than the cultural or historical parts out of your depth. For example all martial arts don’t originate from Shaolin. Every culture on earth from the Iranians to the Russians to the Greeks had indigenous unarmed combat forms as a necessarily complement to weapons. Certainly the war-obsessed Japanese did. Martial arts isn’t the recurve bow LMFAO it’s not a single transmittable technology but a classification of the war arts that every culture had out of necessity.

    Karate has roots in Chinese arts transmitted through the Ryukyu masters but jujutsu is based on unharmed battlefield techniques of Japan’s medieval period. It has nothing to do with China, and neither does MMA. And the basis of Shaolin as well as the fact that it was practiced in monasteries is likely an Indian imprint, where Northern Indian/Persian arts were transmitted to China as Buddhism overtook native Chinese religions. If you’re going to do a Dave Chapelle Racial Draft, then be honest and say the Indians “own” martial arts and pay respect to your ancestor the Indian teacher.

    This is the thing about Chinese guys, they also have to filter what should be rational arguments through some Chinatown prism. Today scholars know that even China itself was the amalgamation of dozens of distinct cultures through thousands of years bridging Paleolithic thru Bronze Age thru Iron Age. It’s not like civilization sprung from one point even WITHIN China then spread out. It was a process of distinct ethnic, cultural, and technological joining as blobs of populations met, clashed, traded and intermingled. Same thing with the prot-Viets, Japanese, Koreans, Mongols etc. Those population centers that exist today inside and outside China always existed, going back 10,000 years into the Stone Age. The thing was that Chinese civilization, centered in the North China Plain was the most centrally located, and also closest to the influence of civilization from the West (Central Asia) which is why they became the best civilization and the most influential, spreading down into what is today Southern China and Vietnam, and North into Manchuria, Korea, Japan. It’s like hot air rising to mix and warm colder air, not a creation event. Your entire comprehension of Asian history is out of some 1930 KMT primer.

    The reason that’s relevant here is because your mangled impression Chinese history also affects your expectations and deconstruction of MMA in relation to China. The typical Chinese idea that the Japanese created MMA and are good at it means China should be good at it, and oh no what’s wrong is stupid. China simply doesn’t have as much penetration of MMA, so they have had less success. All the 19th century crap about food, body types, even temperament is asinine. The Chinese will be good at what they throw money at. No more no less. That’s why the Chinese were able to inflate their medal count in the Summer Olympics, but not the Winter. The government targeted a Summer medal haul first. When China gets around to buying the requisite foreign coaches, paying foreign companies to build the requisite facilities, stealing the right foreign techniques they’ll be good at Winter sports. I really think you’re overthinking this, China will be good at MMA because they will eventually have the most money to throw at it. Also Bruce Lee was 1/4 German.

    • A lot of what you said about history and origin is true and yes Bruce Lee was mixed. Yes of course whatever the Chinese government throws money at is where we will see success. But to completely say that Chinese culture has zero impact on the development of fighters, let alone MMA fighters, is quite a bold claim and one I’m not entirely convinced of especially since I am Chinese and I understand the cultural and economic expectations of our youth as taught and nurtured by our parents from a first hand perspective.

  33. I_Love_jin_Yong_Novel says:

    Learning MMA as career has more disadvantages than other sports;

    1. More risk
    2. More pain
    3. Less reward
    4. Less popular

    As entertainment… nah, I’d rather see WWE

    As sport, there are dozen better options, even badminton is better.

    As self defense, its mostly useless in the real situation.

    Its good Chinese are smart to avoid this kind of useless stuffs, I feel huge sorry for those guys who are in this field as they sacrifice a lot for nothing.

    Gung Fu as martial arts has died a long time ago where the era of swords, weapons and other things were not allowed anymore.

    Nowadays Gung Fu has evolved as entertainment in the movie and we should accept this.

    Want to see real gung fu works in real action is like want to see real dinosaurs

    Bottom line, its true Chinese should be open minded but even if they can see that everything has changed and all of this stuffs about MMA or Gung Fu, I hope they understand too that its wise to leave those things alone and just be spectators unless like someone else said up there…. if MMA is registered in the Olympic

    By the way, anyone feels Sasaki Ken is mentally unstable ?.

    • Kungfu Fighter says:

      Because of too many Chinese having mentality like yours, you can see Chinese getting harmed, robbed, raped, slaughtered and bullied in few countries that have Chinese community. Don’t have to look far, even in China alone, the Chinese were slaughtered by minority Uighurs recently.

      Chinese adopted “Don’t Care Don’t Want To Know” attitude introduced by Chairman Mao that wanted the people to be weak so that he could stay in power while those hungry for money people will focus on earning cash to survive and pay direct/indirect taxes. That is why you see Chinese often don’t bother to help anyone in trouble. There’s law allowing victim to sue good samaritan in China for money. You help a victim from being stabbed, that victim can sue you and demand huge compensation from you with stupid ridiculous reason.

      Kungfu is best martial arts designed by Chinese suited for inferior Chinese physically weaker body compared to other races. Kungfu doesn’t work in self defense if you never trained to fight for real against unarmed/armed assailant & to survive outnumbered fight.

      You want to know whether Kungfu works, I’ll let you use stick to fight me, if not enough, you can get your parents siblings to team up with you. I’ll demonstrate how I could seize the stick from you and use it whack you and the rest while kicking and elbowing.

      • I_Love_jin_Yong_Novel says:

        Please do me one more favor, let me carry a gun and some knives hidden under my cloth and lets see your MMA will work or not ?.

        Bully ? because can’t do MMA ?

        That’s really hilarious, peoples get bullied because they have no money and aren’t successful in this life because spend useless things like MMA.

        Live our lives down to earth and we’ll find peace, who dares to bully successful and rich peoples if they don’t look for troubles.

        This is not the era where strong warrior who can beat others become successful or popular.

        Its very wise for the Chinese they can see the situation.

        Some peoples say Chinese are stubborn and inflexible but they are not, they are aware nowadays the most important thing are brain and money so they’ll leave all of these MMA and rude works for those who are too stubborn to care so much about what works in a fight while they focus more on scientist things. which they believe are the things to make them to be true powerful nowadays. They can be satisfied with their lives and jobs while they make the MMA fighters as their entertainment clowns who are deserved to be pitied.

        Take the richest UFC Fighter and compare his payment with Jet Li or Jackie Chan.

        Even in the heart of MMA Fighters feel they are tired of these nightmare, they want to quit these things quickly and find easier jobs like movie star or WWE Wrestlers. They feel jealous because while they need to pass through this nightmare like idiot WWE Wrestlers and movie stars pass through far easier route and get more money. They realize its not fair so they wish there are movie producers or directors see them then take them so they can get out of this hell.

        Now, you ask a lot of guys out there, which one they prefer ?

        1. Top world action movie star
        2. MMA champion

        The answer will be the first, simply because even though the 1st choice doesn’t work in a real fight but it works in the REAL LIFE :D

      • It looks like you completely ignored what the article was talking about. Read my previous reply. No one is arguing whether or not anyone wishes to be rich, successful, or a movie star. Hollywood and America produces many movie stars, yet they also produce many sports / athlete champions in MMA as well. China does too, but only in Olympic sports that they care about. When MMA becomes a focus of China’s sports dreams, that will change. Of course you will be living a much easier life as a movie star, how is that even an argument? But that is exactly the problem of stubborn Chinese people (I am Chinese myself). They only focus on wealth, money, status, nothing else. They also refuse to accept that times are changing and Chinese Kung Fu is being left in the past. Chinese people get bullied overseas and on the streets in China because they are taught to not fight back or to be too respectful to others, allowing others / foreigners to beat them down, take their women, and make fun of Chinese / Asians, especially expats in China. Because just like how you think, they only care about “being smart and ignore the problems and get money”, yet they live unbalanced lives. They lack confidence in other areas such as in social situations or standing up for themselves. This is the same mentality that makes them weak in combat sports and MMA because they lack aggression / assertiveness. It is a very Chinese-centric problem, or like a Chinese saying goes: “a frog in the well”. Be more well-rounded, like Bruce Lee said. Live a balanced life. That includes the 2 billion Chinese around the globe, who need to understand that not every single Chinese needs to be a doctor, lawyer, or accountant in order to find happiness and success in life.

      • Kungfu Fighter says:

        You need sword, machete, they are more effective than lousy knives that you requested. I am ok with that and the rule is, there is none. I managed to grab your machete/sword, I’m allowed to use it on any of you. As for guns, how many could afford guns in the first place? In my country, you’ll need to be rich enough to possess legal pistol, revolver, shotgun or single action rifle. Illegally guns, you’ll need to smuggle in from Thailand in which, if you are caught for illegal gun possession, you’ll get death sentence.

        Come on, why so blardy afraid if Kungfu is that useless to you? It’s just 1 of me and the several of you + your family members? Are you saying that I am so deadly with Kungfu that I have ability to snatch all the weapons from you and use it against you?

        Over here, Chinese gang leaders no longer hire Chinese gangmembers because they are too wimp and lousy. They hire other races to do the job for them because they are fiercer, brutal and more daring yet they can really beat people up. Chinese without Kungfu is the weakest race here.

      • Chinese having mentality like mine? You mean loving their Chinese people and standing up and fighting for them and talking about our problems out in the open like mature adults should? I am not communist, I do not need to hide in fear of speaking about our problems as Chinese people. A few of our problems as Chinese people is that we are too stubborn to allow ourselves or our children to pursue something other than being a doctor, lawyer, accountant, etc. There are 2 billion of us, truly ONE of us can choose to do something different like combat sports? We are not here to debate about whether Kung Fu works or not. In many self defense situations Kung Fu when done correctly, just like any martial art, can be useful. But you cannot be so ignorant and say “MMA is not useful for self defense”. That’s just pure ignorance. I won’t argue about it, but after you train just a little bit of Muay Thai or BJJ, you will understand what I am talking about. Knife and gun fighting is a totally different topic altogether. That’s army combat training. But China’s army trains sanshou, not wushu or tai chi for their army fighting. Why is that? Because sanshou is a hybrid, more complete form of martial art, similar to MMA, that works in REAL LIFE.

    • Yes, MMA is a poor man’s sport in comparison to other professional sports and professions. But doesn’t that mean you totally ignored what my article was about? Don’t you think it is strange that a tiny country like Japan with 125 million people has produced many MMA legends, whereas 2 billion Chinese scattered across the globe struggle to produce even 1 mid-card MMA fighter? Does it mean Chinese people suck at fighting? No. It’s because Chinese people (like yourself) only enjoy money… nothing else. I find it unsettling that 2 billion of us are out there… many working in textile factories or in electronics factories making iPhones for Apple… yet not 1 out of 2 billion of us is willing to stand up and fight? I am talking about just 1 brother… I am not asking “every Chinese to start doing MMA” because MMA is not for everyone.

      • Kungfu Fighter says:

        Hi dynastyclothingstore.com,

        Over here, MMA is richman’s martial arts, being the most expensive that even beat Gym fees. Kungfu is poorman’s sports. TKD, Karate is normal middle income sports. That ” I_Love_jin_Yong_Novel”, he’s just an ignorant, probably too lazy to train yet he is probably some “Don’t Care Don’t Want To Know” mentality group. He saw someone getting rob, he’ll either just stand there and watch or flee if things get dangerous.

        1 more week to my fight audition where I’ll make the first authentic Kungfu vs MMA fight video where the Kungfu is working one, not some amateurs that don’t even know how to aim and shoot accurately, got into panic/nervous, etc. Also, to prove those ignorant like Jin Yong Novel wrong, I’m adding weight to fight in heavier Welterweight category to demonstrate how to counter much bigger stronger opponent in grappling and cage fight.

      • Kungfu Fighter says:

        Hi Dynasty.

        I’ve been to the audition. They made me starved >7 hours skipping lunch yet wanted me to wrestle before going to fight. I was totally exhausted and could not perform any of my usual moves. Just get in there and wasted the 2 minutes without effort to fight back. Feel free to criticize and help inform the rest.

        Check the vids and must read the description on what happen. Now you know my name.

        http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=paIIs6MDAqM

        Unlike MMA fighters who trained for strength and used to starving, I have to eat a lot before I fight as it drains more energy to perform those high end moves especially counter grappling. I do know grappling but if I were to grapple with fellow Asians, fine. If I were to grapple bigger and stronger Chinese, it is less effective while against much stronger Non-Chinese, it will never worked. Some of the fight here involving Asian vs Caucasian where both at similar MMA grappling skills showed that Asians are inferior in strength while the Caucasians could easily dominate.

        My next plan is to join local Kungfu center that is willing to restore Kungfu fighting where I will share them the skills and get them to fighting, adopt MMA gloves and participate in fight matches against MMA fighters. I’ll try to make it to local Sanshou competition this year end where there are MMA fighters there too. I’ll show how real Kungfu works especially counter grappling without starving. Hopefully by next year, I can bring more kungfu fighters to join the audition with me. Next time, I’ll eat a lot before I go with 2 barrels of water instead.

    • Kungfu Fighter says:

      Hi Dynasty, the comment below was replied to I_Love_jin_Yong_Novel , there was no reply button to his newer comment so it appeared below your comment.

      “You need sword, machete, they are more effective than lousy knives that you requested. I am ok with that and the rule is, there is none. I managed to grab your machete/sword, I’m allowed to use it on any of you. As for guns, how many could afford guns in the first place? In my country, you’ll need to be rich enough to possess legal pistol, revolver, shotgun or single action rifle. Illegally guns, you’ll need to smuggle in from Thailand in which, if you are caught for illegal gun possession, you’ll get death sentence.

      Come on, why so blardy afraid if Kungfu is that useless to you? It’s just 1 of me and the several of you + your family members? Are you saying that I am so deadly with Kungfu that I have ability to snatch all the weapons from you and use it against you?

      Over here, Chinese gang leaders no longer hire Chinese gangmembers because they are too wimp and lousy. They hire other races to do the job for them because they are fiercer, brutal and more daring yet they can really beat people up. Chinese without Kungfu is the weakest race here.”

  34. Gaibriel says:

    Good research. There is a bit more to it (then even that). Also its not just leg catches in sanda that make it so unique, doing the take downs while you are being punched as well is a huggggge thing too, in conclusion keeping a core belief of defence but in a more realistic situation. Also they use some techniques in the grappling aspect that are great that I haven’t found in many other styles. In my opinion Sanda is helping us understand what got lost in the translation of tradition, restriction, and loss of knowledge that has occurred threw its rocky history. In current times actually my shaolin shifu praises the practice of other martial arts and even encourage and recognizes its very highly!

    In conclusion, too much diversity in reasons to give a clear answer. Not only for the past but the future as well

  35. Hachimitsu says:

    Hey i just read this article of yours. and i must say most of your points are legit. and you have made really good points here. i never knew there were no warrior class in china.
    i myself would love to see the chinese people get macho and manly and fight in some 5-10 years later myself.
    and you sir are a true chinese, i’ll keep on supporting the chinese people even though i am not one.
    and you here have made some real good reasons because there are a lot of mongolians out there who are belittling the chinese martial arts. thanks to you i have now found a good reason and points to tell those guys. i myself hope that one day i would try fighting somewhere representing chinese martial arts. i hope i will.
    i’m also a karate fighter.

    • Hachimitsu says:

      oh btw if you guys must know. the shaolin monk who some posted is making a lot of progress in his kickboxing career. hope to see some more fighters like him :)
      peace!

      • Hachimitsu says:

        oh also. you guys should check out sifu al haroun hisham who represents chinese martial arts in mma. i mean if you guys want to…..

  36. Travis says:

    Jin Tang; a girl, might be China’s most experienced MMA fighter.

  37. martin says:

    The Shaolin Warrior Monks are to be trained to enter the UFC… here’s a trailer for the new reality series http://youtu.be/jp-CEITLnLI

    • Interesting trailer, it has potential. But the actual MMA portions of the trailer look amateurish. You need real Chinese Sanda counter wrestling and grappling to deal with MMA. With that said I am still intrigued.

      • martin says:

        A champion Sanda fighter who you see in the trailer executing a spinning kick, who is a Shaolin Monk is also involved…

    • Kungfu Fighter says:

      Thanks for the link. I am glad those China Kungfu practitioners begin to wake up and get back to fighting using Kungfu instead of Sanshou. At the same time, I’ll attempt to restore Kungfu fighting syllabus in as many remaining Kungfu/Wushu centers here that haven’t gone bankrupt.

  38. Arthur Chan says:

    Great article, sums up everything “wrong” with Chinese society today (in the Martial Arts sense). I can now only dream of seeing a Chinese MMA athlete rep for all the Asians in the UFC, it will definitely happen one day… but for now, at least we can look towards the Koreans as they have some great fighters (Tae Hyun Bang from KTT with his recent knock out in the UFC 174 Prelims, that was an awesome fight).

    You are correct in saying that southern Chinese tend to be smaller. However I don’t think that limits us Chinese as fighters as we can still compete at lighter weight classes and have potential to do well in them.

    Also your article exposed me to your awesome clothing line, where can I grab one of those HK dynasty hoodies? Are they all sold out?

    Keep in touch my friend.

    From,

    A Chinese with a Warrior’s Mentality.

    • Thanks for your nice reply. Please follow us on Facebook, Instagram, etc to keep in touch with our releases. More hoodies will come in the winter season. Cheers!

    • Kungfu Fighter says:

      Chinese trains MMA forever will never achieve anything against Caucasian in UFC. Only thing they could rely on is the actual Kungfu and to do that, they’ll have to restore the Kungfu fighting syllabus that trains them how to take on much stronger opponents especially real strong wrestlers.

  39. YOU IDIOT says:

    I WAS ALL GUNG HO ABOUT THIS ARTICLE UNTIL I READ THE PART ABOUT MY “AVERAGE GENES AND ATHLETICISM” PLEASE TELL ME HOW YOUR GENES ARE “ABOVE AVERAGE ” TO MY SAD LITTLE HONG KONG GENES YOU RACISTS BASTARD EAT A DICK . GOOD GOD YOU MUST BE A FUCKING IDIOT. GENETICS DOESNT WORK LIKE THAT. ME AND YOU ARE 99.9% SIMILAR GENETICALLY. IT’S A SCIENTIFIC FACT .SO PLEASE TELL ME HOW MY GENES ARE “AVERAGE” AND YOURS “ABOVE AVERAGE” WHAT THE FUCK DOES SIZE HAVE TO DO WITH IT ANYWAY ? YOU’RE PUT IN YOUR WEIGHT CLASS IN MMA . EAT A MILLION DICKS AND DIE IN A CAR ACCIDENT. “AVERAGE ATHLETICISM ” I GUESS SINCE THE COMMIES KIDNAP BABIES AT BIRTH THEIR ATHLETICISM AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS CAN JUST BE THROWN OUT THE WINDOW RIGHT ? I MEAN SHIT THEY MUST HAVE SUPER SOLDIER SERUMED EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THESE OLYMPIC MEDAL WINNERS. ONCE AGAIN EAT A DICK AND REALIZE HOW RACISTS YOUR SHIT IS AND HAVE THE BALLS AND COMMON DECENCY TO EDIT IT . BET YOU WONT CAUSE RELATIVELY SPEAKING YOU’RE TOO NAIVE TO REALIZE IT.

    • YOU IDIOT says:

      I AGREE WITH YOU ON EVERYTHING ELSE THE CULTURAL REVOLUTION KILLED GUNG FU MOST OF MY COUNTRYMEN WILL ARGUE THE SHAOLIN OF TODAY IS A FARCE CREATED BY THE COMMIES AND HAS NO LINEAGE WHAT SO EVER TO THE ORIGINAL

      • I believe UFC fighter Dong Hyun Kim commented that Asian fighters typically produce less testosterone. I have not seen any scientific fact proving this, but I do know that physically just by nutrition or by using your eyes, the average western kid at age 18 is more physically developed than the average Asian kid at age 18. I know when I was 18 I wasn’t near my physical athletic prime (physically developed or completed puberty), but now that I’m nearing my later 20’s I feel I’ve finally grown into my body and can pack on size and muscle. I’m a Chinese guy by the way.

    • Kungfu Fighter says:

      I’ve fought Caucasian at the local MMA fight audition. Fact is, Caucasian is physically stronger and tougher where it takes twice the strength to counter his grappling. Also as seen in several fights involving Asian vs Caucasian in the ring on that 2 days, the Asians mostly lost when comes to wrestling. Want to fight someone much stronger will have to use counter grappling with some acrobat moves. This is where Asians excel on flexibility and agility.

  40. Michael Zorko says:

    You are right..about one thing – Systems of old lost… some simply into exile for fear of what actually happened. I love reading “trained in MMA” – Funny stuff. MMA is a concept much like JKD. Its a mix – funny, it was all born out of pride.

    UFC began as an infomercial Gracie BJJ – The original concept began with the age old question – what would happen if Japanese Karteka were to Face a Chinese Boxer… well…we never really knew. The UFC hand picked horrible representation from multiple systems. The best fighters in the world did not participate – sadley the best fighters in the world do not exist any more. Ask yourself this… where would we be today if a stand up fighter would have won those pioneering events? I will tell you.. the same place.

    Pride has determined this. You see when BJJ wins… that Mantis fighter learns how to grapple to be competitive. Soon we are plagued with the hybrid systems we have today. The exact reason systems went into exile… to protect our bloodlines. Our heritage… because we no longer care if Tiger Claw beats Judo.

    It is said martial arts have evolved… silly people. Humans have evolved… our bodies have evolved. How egotistical we are to think that something new has never been done before. You have a new arm bar? nope..been done. You have a new choke counter…nope… already thought of.

    Here is the deal in closing.. we fight for different reasons. In 1911 we fought for food. In 1899 (the Boxer Rebels) we fought oppression of forced commerace and religion. That is hunger. When a Chinese Boxer takes on all comers…it is to keep a school open…to feed his family.

    So I can assure you that a Silva would shit his pants looking across a ring at Attila the Hun.. Or Two Dragons Wei why? Because they did not care about a contract…

    So Chinese MMA – You just have not had someone hungry enough. However I will tell you this. I do not need a ring… or TV.. to prove a point. I will meet with anyone… respectfully in private… to match my skill against theirs. No need for the world to know the out come.. just him and me… that is all I need. That is because I am hungry.

    I will proudly represent Chinese Boxing – I have 200 years of tradition running through my veins. I am 22nd Generation Chen :) Not trained at your neigborhood kwoon – I have evolved just fine.

    So with that remember… you only see what we allow you to see… and we smile knowing you think what you do see is all there is. We build empires on the shoulders of tradition. Dana White builds TV contracts on what we allow.

    This is how it is –
    Michael
    The Rogue Boxer

    • Kungfu Fighter says:

      Good points there. Problem with Kungfu nowadays is that they removed fighting syllabus completely and adopted simplified Sanshou instead. Most Kungfu now Wushu practitioners don’t even know how to apply the moves embedded in pattern nowadays.

      I’m looking forward to restore Kungfu fighting syllabus in as many Wushu/Kungfu centers my country and get them back to the old days again. Scrap stupid sanshou technique and rules and revive the original lei tai fighting regulation. No eye gouge, hit neck or groin as we don’t want any casualties. The fight is just as realistic as real street fight.

  41. Well, you are basically reiterating what I said just differently. So you’re really just agreeing with me, because I specifically said people should be open minded and train everything. Same as Bruce Lee said. What I’m also saying is that people should not confuse something like Tai Chi or many trivial internal Kung fu arts to be useful in a street or sport fight, because unless you actually spar and fight, none of your training is applicable. I hope you’ve cross trained before or at least watched a few documentaries, because if you did you would know this. I’ve trained in karate, taekwondo, wing chun, Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai, and boxing for over the course of 15+ years. So I’m pretty qualified to say I know what works and what doesn’t work. Aikido and tai chi are like demonstration arts, it looks pretty but isn’t useful. No one in a real fight would fight like an aikido demo, I’m sorry. It would be an ugly street fight with punches and tackles and scrambles. No one will just stand there and let you lock their wrist or let you kick their groin. In reality if that is your argument then it is a very weak one because I can do the same things to you and attack your groin and eyes but I don’t need to have many many years of Kung fu to know how to do that… but flip that around and you know nothing about MMA then I will beat you every single time with a simple technique such as a single leg takedown followed by an ankle lock.

  42. Haha. I like how you completely ignored everything I just said and only likes to talk about street fights. Wake up, my friend. Your Kung fu will not save you anymore than MMA will on a street fight. What is traditional solid martial arts background? I have 5 years of Karate black belt level, that is not solid martial arts background? I have 5 years Taekwondo black belt level, that is not solid martial arts background? What do you define as solid? So according to you, none of my martial arts experience is traditional or solid because I don’t train fake aikido and Krav Maga or army style self defense? You sir, are a joke. I’m pretty sure in a street fight you will get your ass kicked not because of your lack of solid martial arts skill but because you don’t have an open mind. You compared a Shaolin monk to a no name American fighter and also compared a boxing fighter who happened to beat an MMA guy. So what? What about all the times MMA has been shown to be more useful than only knowing one martial art? You are delusional my friend so you can stop commenting.

  43. Ranjit Mishra says:

    Kung Fu takes time to learn. But if someone wants to learn a good self defense art in short time, then he can choose MMA.

  44. Thanks. We think there is a place for both traditional and modern training. Both are great for their own purposes.

  45. Hope to share some of your links through our Facebook page so let us know please!


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